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MeetChristians.com / Forums / Reference, Politics and History

No. 0     Original Topic:  Where Does It End?   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Nov 20, 2017 at 9:37 AM   Viewed 718 times     
Where Does It End?
by Jeff Thomas



It’s nothing new.

Whenever a major country is in decline and approaching collapse, a contingent arises that does everything it can to speed up the process toward collapse. This is always done in the same way:

Vilify the established rulers as being the culprits for the nation’s woes.

Establish simplistic arguments to support that view. (The arguments need not be entirely logical or supportable, but they must have emotional public appeal.)

Create simplistic rhetoric that supports the destruction of the establishment and its icons.

Make the arguments and rhetoric as ubiquitous as possible (particularly through the media).

Then, like any recipe, turn up the heat and bake until done.

Generally, the destruction of the first icon (most often a statue) requires some sort of explanation, regardless of how flimsy the argument may be. After that has succeeded, praise is to be showered on those who took part, egging them, and others, on to do more. As each new icon falls, less justification is necessary and, in the end, only blind anger is required to keep the destruction going.

In the present era, we’re witnessing this age-old process taking place in quite a few countries, but notably in the US.

But, why the US—the one country in the world that began as possibly the most advanced, freest nation the world had ever seen? How did this come to pass in “the land of the free”?

Well, truth be told, no matter how inspired or sincere the founding fathers of any nation may be, those who would usurp them are always many in number and, in most cases, are prepared to do whatever it takes to slowly take power and return to tyrannical rule.

As Thomas Jefferson said,

Even under the best forms of Government, those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

And, even in George Washington’s Cabinet, the rot set in early, with Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton continually seeking to subvert the objectives of Secretary of State Jefferson. Therefore, the degradation in the US system began quite early.

But why does it seem as though it’s speeding up dramatically now? Why is it suddenly pulling apart at the seams?

Well, for that answer, we can once again rely on Mister Jefferson:

Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%.

And the US has passed that significant tipping point. The majority now depend upon handouts from the government. Once that occurs, it becomes easy to sell them the idea that, since they’re “entitled” to the handouts, they have a perfect right to be outraged that they’re not receiving more. (Again, logic is not necessary; what’s required is an emotionally-charged sense of victimisation.)

Historically, once a nation has reached this point, it never goes back. It’s ripe for a collectivist revolution. Ironically, in every collectivist revolution, the leaders have no intention of “freeing the people.” Their goal is to dominate them far more greatly than they presently had been.

Essentially, what we’re observing in the US is a standard collectivist revolution, but in slo-mo. At the same time as relatively pampered Americans are purchasing the latest pricey smartphones and buying a Toasted Graham Latte at Starbucks for $5.25, the sense of victimisation is well under way and the destruction of icons has begun.

The tearing-down of Confederate flags occurred. Statues of Robert E. Lee were destroyed and, recently, a plaque in a Virginia church honouring the seat where George Washington regularly sat has been under attack for removal.

In each of the above cases, the arguments have been increasingly flimsy, but no matter. As stated above, the reasoning need not bear scrutiny. All that matters is that it has an emotional attraction. As the destruction continues, the emotion will morph from indignation to blind rage as necessary.

And, as any revolutionary leader could attest, if he can succeed in inducing bling rage, no King, no Czar, no President can stand up to that rage for long.

It’s important to note that, in every country where collectivist revolution has taken place, only a small minority of the population has been necessary to bring about the unseating of conventional leaders. In some cases, the leaders have been killed. In others, they’ve been forced to flee the country quickly. In still others, the leaders have agreed to step down in disgrace.

What’s significant is not the manner in which the leaders were supplanted, but the direction that the country takes following the leaders’ downfall.

In the US, this may be as mild a change as the resignation of the president, followed by the election of an avowed collectivist that will transform the country.

It will matter little whether the new leader describes himself as a collectivist, socialist, democrat, or other term. The outcome will be the same.

In the beginning, there will be euphoria on the part of the 51%, who will see themselves as the heroes of change. What they will be, in reality, will be the pawns of the new order.

Recently, an American associate of mine sent me the link for the article describing the intended removal of the Washington plaque and asked, “Where does it end?”

Well, unfortunately, it doesn’t “end.” It continues for decades. (Collectivism can sometimes be maintained for generations before it finally flames out, due to lack of productivity and the weight of a costly top-heavy government.)

The folly is in hoping, as my colleague sometimes does, that the stampede toward collectivism will somehow magically screech to a halt and reverse its direction. The sad truth is that, historically, this has never happened. At best, we observe a revolution in slow motion, as is taking place in the US.

The question for the individual who’s likely to be impacted by this is whether he should rely on “hope,” or whether he should recognize that hope is not a plan.

Plans often prove to be challenging, costly, and difficult, but, for those who may soon be losing a large measure of their freedom, they are essential, if the outcome is to be a positive one.

http://www.internationalman.com/articles/where-does-it-end
No. 1     Reply: Re: Where Does It End?   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Nov 24, 2017 at 10:57 AM     
“Where does it end?”

"Well, unfortunately, it doesn’t “end.” It continues for decades. (Collectivism can sometimes be maintained for generations before it finally flames out, due to lack of productivity and the weight of a costly top-heavy government.)

The folly is in hoping, as my colleague sometimes does, that the stampede toward collectivism will somehow magically screech to a halt and reverse its direction. The sad truth is that, historically, this has never happened. At best, we observe a revolution in slow motion, as is taking place in the US.

The question for the individual who’s likely to be impacted by this is whether he should rely on “hope,” or whether he should recognize that hope is not a plan."



Reading such commentaries such as this does not bode well for one's digestion. The real question might be asked, 'Should it be taken with a grain of salt?'

Many of us love our country (speaking of the US). Most of us agree it has taken some wrong turns. Where we might disagree is what shall we do about it.

Some believe that the election of Donald Trump will somehow magically turn things around, or if we are more spiritually inclined, that God, using Trump, will turn things around, but if you hope for that, is it a foolish hope in light of the majority of the country still continues to sink in a immoral morass and treat God pretty much as it treats Santa Claus, someone to think about maybe once or twice a year.

I love my country, and I pray for it more than I ever have in my life. God does hear, and if enough Christians hit their knees, He may very well act to give us one more chance. But will such an action "make America great again"?

It may very well do so, but will it happen in the way we think it might? Will God save America that it might continue to abort babies, continue to destroy marriages, continue to ignore Him?

Somehow I don't see that happening.

Instead, I look for God to use Trump to give America, specifically America's Christians, one last chance at evangelism and performing a mighty working of God's Spirit in the land, and after that...

Of course the Church must wake up first. It hasn't done so as of yet.

America is an empire, and the OP article implies that no empire has ever been able to halt its slide into collectivism. That is not wholly correct, as one empire, or at least a kingdom, has done it...once.

That kingdom was Assyria, where the King and people listened to the Word of the Lord, repented by falling to their knees, wearing sackcloth and ashes, and besieged the Lord with prayers of repentance. God heard their prayers and repentance, and stayed His hand.

But it only happened once, and even the empire of Assyria sinned again down the road and ended up in the graveyard of all empires...dust.

I don't really have a sense that America will be as great as it was. I think the sins of collectivism and immorality may be stymied for a time, while God works His will with Christians and using Trump, but Trump will only be with us for 4 yrs. and possibly 8.

Will it be enough? Perhaps for the church to be the Church in a last hurrah, but what happens after that?

History reveals a likely answer, and that answer is that empires eventually die.

But God rules history, rather than history ruling God.

"The question for the individual who’s likely to be impacted by this is whether he should rely on “hope,” or whether he should recognize that hope is not a plan."

Hope is what we have in God and Christ. But if we rely on hope to determine our daily lives, we attempt to live on a spiritual plane we haven't arrived at as of yet. Hope does not feed our children. Hope does not protect us from the robber or murderer. Hope does not protect us from an ever-increasing secular and rogue government that plunders wealth and productivity and attempts to keep its citizens as slaves to its own whims.

Plans and taking action on them does address these problems, one way or another, should we prove to be sufficiently wise in implementing them.

In secular USA, we continue to lose our freedoms, almost on a daily basis. President Trump has made some differences, but so far it has been more in the nature of sticking one's finger in the dike. Yes, we all hope that freedoms will come back, but if we merely rely on Donald Trump (rather than God) to accomplish this, are we wise to do so?

There is little debate that God will use Trump as He chooses, but shouldn't there be debate as to how that will work out, rather than just assuming that all our ills will be taken care of by any one man, however he seems to be used by God?

"Plans often prove to be challenging, costly, and difficult, but, for those who may soon be losing a large measure of their freedom, they are essential, if the outcome is to be a positive one."

Plans are also not for the spiritually lazy. I don't believe God means for Christians to sit in their Lazy Boy chairs waiting for Him to extricate them from the challenges of a world that does not seek Him. Most Christians in history have not had the advantage of the pretty much free and easy life that American Christians have had.

That time for American Christians is fast coming to a close. What will we do when it does?

Will we stay in our armchairs with our 'hope', praying to God for Him to 'save' us so we can continue in luxury and relative wealth that the rest of the world, including Christian brethren, do not share?

Or will we meet this challenge, first on our knees, and then taking action on a plan that meets the test we have been given?