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MeetChristians.com / Forums / Reference, Politics and History

No. 0     Original Topic: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 26, 2017 at 10:07 AM   Viewed 1592 times     
Are you aware that after the Holocaust, that Germans were led on their own death marches. They took the same migration routes and were housed in the Polish-Jewish death camps after Hitler [ironically some might say, but few were guilty of war crimes. Many guilty fled to Argentina and other countries long before]. Merely speaking German (not being found guilty of war crimes) would amount to forced immigration (along the same trails that the Jews traveled) or encampment into camps formerly used in the genocide of Jews (where many Civilian Germans would then die).

1 Sam 8 and other verses echoes in my mind when I consider the human condition of seeking a 'king,' and the human condition of desiring to follow man (over that of God).

https://www.gotquestions.org/Israelites-ask-king.html

1 Samuels: Now appoint for us a king to judge us like all the nations.

1 Samuel 8:7 And the Lord said to Samuel, “Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them. 8 According to all the deeds that they have done, from the day I brought them up out of Egypt even to this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are also doing to you. 9 Now then, obey their voice; only you shall solemnly warn them and show them the ways of the king who shall reign over them.”


There was qualifiers God set when man chose human kings. In Deuteronomy 17:14-20. The king was to be an Israelite (17:15). The king must not acquire many horses (17:16a). The king must not take many wives (17:17a). Fourth, the king must not accumulate large amounts of gold and silver (17:17b). Fifth, the king must keep a copy of God's Torah with him to be read throughout his life, so he would rule according to God's principles (17:18-20) (condensed from an online source)...

This was God's king: faithful, separate from the pagans, guiding God's people to righteous living as a shepherd leads his sheep.

For certain Christ Himself fulfills all things, but as I look at the world ... I see cycles of war and millions of civilians dying and man glorifying man over that of God. One man or small country can lead millions to death (what a fragile world we live in with so many following and few leaders). I hope you might have time to view the shocking video below while we remain in prayer over the situation with Korea's President, Kim Jong-un (who has been President since 2011).

Europe and the East has been shrouded with more war than the West which is nothing new. Again, I hope you have time to view this documentary (be warned there are shocking images though. It contained history that many are unaware of):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNpnKfyKmMY

No. 1     Reply: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Sep 26, 2017 at 12:16 PM     
CASandie wrote: I hope you might have time to view the shocking video below while we remain in prayer over the situation with Korea's President, Kim Jong-un (who has been President since 2011).


I find calling him a, "President" abhorrent.

He is a purely evil communist dictator.

"Presidents" do not treat their, "citizens" the way he does.

If I had the chance I would put a bullet to his head myself and do his country and the world a favor.

The more I learn about him the more I want to puke.

He is a devil, a demon from hell, and that's about it.
No. 2     Reply: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Sep 26, 2017 at 12:19 PM     
I suspect he won't live too awfully long.

If War doesn't get him I think he'll die an early death from gluttony.
No. 3     Reply: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 26, 2017 at 12:36 PM     

BF -- thanks for your post. He for certain is tyrannical as are many followed in this world.

The hatred and torture of Christians in the region is horrible to witness.

Yet, we see this time and again in History. Saddam (also a tyrannical dictator who killed and tortured citizens) was taken down, but another arises. As the video reveals, Hitler was taken down, but then the same hatred and cruelty was shown to multitudes thereafter who starved and died although they were just citizens (not part of Hitler's regime). Many migrate to the US (if initiating war, we can anticipate a new wave of Korean immigrants. If nuclear weapons are used against California...it will affect the entire US. We saw this with Japan).

Are we as people (billions of people/citizens/non-government) learning anything in hindsight as we watch history replay itself?

No. 4     Reply: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Sep 26, 2017 at 12:37 PM     
Read this to discover the cult that drives the North Korean Dictator, his regime, and even the common people who worship him.

[/url]https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/sep/23/trump-misreads-north-korea-sacred-dynasty-at-his-peril[/url]
No. 5     Reply: Re: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Sep 28, 2017 at 12:27 AM     
CAsandie wrote:

Yet, we see this time and again in History. Saddam (also a tyrannical dictator who killed and tortured citizens) was taken down, but another arises.


Until someone or some Government takes them down...

As the video reveals, Hitler was taken down, but then the same hatred and cruelty was shown to multitudes thereafter who starved and died although they were just citizens (not part of Hitler's regime).


There were many common Germans who were allied to Hitler to the end and would turn in the US Soldiers and the Allied Forces and stab them in the back in a second, often times literally.

Many migrate to the US (if initiating war, we can anticipate a new wave of Korean immigrants. If nuclear weapons are used against California...it will affect the entire US. We saw this with Japan).


Many Japanese citizens became our Allies eventually. And now the Country is one of our closest Allies in the Asian Pacific.

I would not currently worry about NK sending any nukes to California.

He does have one Missile in his arsenal that is capable of hitting almost the entire US mainland, so you are not alone.

However, any Intercontinental ballistic Missiles fired by them will likely be shot down and destroyed by us before they can do any damage.

Plus it is thought he currently does not have the capability to attach a nuke onto a missile just yet.

He still has a ways to go before he is able to develop advanced and miniaturized versions that would fit on a missile.

He is still in the eraly stages of nuke testing, like we were at one time.

Left unchecked, he will likely achieve that goal eventually. Possibly in months, or maybe years away, we don't know.

And if he does choose to fire even one towards us, Guam, Japan, or South Korea the party would soon be over for him as far as being able to lob missiles.

The ground war would take much longer to win though, and many South Koreans would likely suffer.

Are we as people (billions of people/citizens/non-government) learning anything in hindsight as we watch history replay itself?


NK has been threatening the US, South Korea, and Japan for decades.

We are technically still at War with them, and have been since the 1950's.

They will never change their goal or give up their dreams of assimilating South Korea until they are annihilated, destroyed and forced to.

Like it or not, that is the reality of it.

There is no, "negotiating" with NK because they have a goal in mind, and that goal will never change. (See my other links I posted elsewhere as to how they are deceived in their cult.)

Being that evil people and Rulers will often rear their ugly heads from time to time trying to take over the world....

It is the world's responsibility to stop them...
No. 6     Reply: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Sep 28, 2017 at 12:33 AM     
Some Christians are sometimes under the mistaken impression that God would never hurt a flea or lift a finger to help the oppressed through, "War".

Such a concept of God however is not Biblical and contradicts numerous instances of Scripture which proves otherwise.

Here is just one instance from Jesus's own mouth. Pay close attention to Jesus's words, and the last verse I have underlined....

Jesus said...

"Again he sent out other slaves saying, 'Tell those who have been invited, "Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are all butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast."'

"But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business,

and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them.

"But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire."
~ Matthew 22:4-7 NASB
No. 7     Reply: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 29, 2017 at 12:55 AM     
Hi BF --

Thanks for your posts.

What you posted from Matthew 22 is the parable of the wedding feast, so it begins and is about this:

Matt 22:1-3 And Jesus answered and spake again in parables unto them, saying, 2 The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a certain king, who made a marriage feast for his son, 3 and sent forth his [a]servants to call them that were bidden to the marriage feast: and they would not come.

Do you believe it held a political meaning that I am missing?

As to the world, I am not one to speculate on what God does or does not, but I see many who have no fear in that area (wasn't the world supposed to end on the 23rd)?...

I wonder if anyone packed for the occasion?

In the OP, I am more or less wondering if history is truly studied at any great length to were lessons are truly learned and mistakes are not repeated. In school and even college, I had not heard that the greatest migration of Europeans that ever existed was after the Holocaust (particularly anyone who spoke German due to the evils of Hitler. The German speaking migration was from neighboring countries by large. Most were civilians and a great number of children and those not involved in the war). Many war leaders (Natzis were long gone in Argentina or other countries in hiding).

My greater point here would be this: civilians die at the wave of a hand of a President...

The causalities of war are often not those leading man to war.





No. 8     Reply: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Sep 29, 2017 at 3:10 AM     
A good quick summary about what the Bible says about War...

https://www.gotquestions.org/war-Bible.html

Question: "What does the Bible say about war?"

"Answer: Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, “You shall not kill,” and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder.” God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm to the innocent is by going to war.

In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to “take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). Deuteronomy 20:16-17 declares, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…as the LORD your God has commanded you.” Also, 1 Samuel 15:18 says, “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.” Obviously God is not against all war. Jesus is always in perfect agreement with the Father (John 10:30), so we cannot argue that war was only God’s will in the Old Testament. God does not change (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17).

Jesus’ second coming will be exceedingly violent. Revelation 19:11-21 describes the ultimate war with Christ, the conquering commander who judges and makes war “with justice” (v. 11). It’s going to be bloody (v. 13) and gory. The birds will eat the flesh of all those who oppose Him (v. 17-18). He has no compassion upon His enemies, whom He will conquer completely and consign to a “fiery lake of burning sulfur” (v. 20).

It is an error to say that God never supports a war. Jesus is not a pacifist. In a world filled with evil people, sometimes war is necessary to prevent even greater evil. If Hitler had not been defeated by World War II, how many more millions would have been killed? If the American Civil War had not been fought, how much longer would African-Americans have had to suffer as slaves?

War is a terrible thing. Some wars are more “just” than others, but war is always the result of sin (Romans 3:10-18). At the same time, Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “There is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.” In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to conflicts, and praying for a minimum of casualties among civilians on both sides (Philippians 4:6-7)."
No. 9     Reply: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 29, 2017 at 4:39 AM     
BF -- I agree with you that there is God's war to come and then there are rumors of wars and man's wars ...

and I agree with the article you posted on this point:

The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to conflicts, and praying for a minimum of casualties among civilians on both sides (Philippians 4:6-7)."


Did you get a chance to watch the video? Thanks.


No. 10     Reply: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Sep 29, 2017 at 9:01 PM     
God is a God of, "Justice".

And sometimes that includes making War against ungodly evil entities, Governments, and or people.

God uses Man to accomplish his will.

Sometimes that must unfortunately include War.

"And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war." ~ Revelation 19:11
No. 11     Reply: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 30, 2017 at 1:42 PM     
BF -- Well thanks for your posts and interest in this thread.

I'm not sure what your largely print scripture or the war that God Himself wages has to do with the OP, but again thanks.

The scripture you address, Armageddon does address Christ as King and what will come. Our King beating the beast! I am providing the following scriptures from Revelation, in case anyone is interested in the rest of the chapter (a good read)!

Revelations 19:12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”a He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

king of kings and lord of lords.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.


The earth, the world are deluded ... it is what I see repeated historically in events researched surrounding Hitler and the OP.

No. 12     Reply: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Sep 30, 2017 at 9:42 PM     
Jeffress: God gave Trump authority to take out Kim Jong-Un

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5537349963001/?#sp=news-clips/world
No. 13     Reply: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  Devaprakash   Gender: M   Age: 73   on  Oct 1, 2017 at 1:15 AM     
Mennonites, Amish and JWs are right in disassociating with war machinery. Unfortunately, Christendom is full of hypocrites who don't really believe in Jesus Christ and and His teaching but seek blood in all their endeavors!

Goats burn each other before Jesus takes over with His war. God will fight for us without our participation. False prophets abound everywhere with war cry in their mouths. Zionists of Israel ably supported by the deluded Christians are adding fuel to the fire. :hole:
No. 14     Reply: Re: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  Devaprakash   Gender: M   Age: 73   on  Oct 1, 2017 at 1:20 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Jeffress: God gave Trump authority to take out Kim Jong-Un

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5537349963001/?#sp=news-clips/world


You mean Tramp the joker? :rofl:
No. 15     Reply: Re: History: Does it teach us? What do we learn and from who?   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Oct 2, 2017 at 12:47 PM     

BF/Devaprakash -- It seems as if deism (or not) is the theological question in the posts given by both of you (it is not where my thoughts were when creating this thread. My thoughts were simply this: so much in history is under studied and unknown by the masses that can leave a blindness as far as learning from the same).


So to briefly address the side discussion (which I believe is theological in nature):

We see in the OT (and the NT through Christ), the Father intervening on behalf of His people. Today we see so much war though (are we to protect the Muslim against their own selection of leadership and the communist against their own tyranny and what of the US ... I do see over taxation and tyranny here)?

I do not think Tyranny is the Lord's, but indeed I agree that He is a Just God and all people will sow what they reap.

I guess the question that would need to be asked is if things changed with Christ's blood shed from the OT to the NT ... and is the Lord's judgement -- now or to come (which we might not know in 'every' situation)?

This thread was on seeing History and things in history that is not taught in schools and not researched often. Where I was leading was a simple basic thought: it seems that with every war held brings new refugees to the US from whatever country is protected against tyranny. For example we will see new Korean immigrants if a war is conducted with N. Korea. Yet, many have communistic ideologies and many hate the US [just as many Middle Eastern do]. I think as time moves on the US with it's immigration due to wars causes a greater instability in the US..


But ... the other theological question I'd have to ask since this thread shifted in its intended discussion is this: If our (Christian's) hope is in the New Earth (not this system) and the Lord has stated all will be destroyed...should we be seeking the things in the Bible that are required (i.e. ushering in His New Kingdom by supporting the Gospel reaching all nations) or concerned with politics ... that is if we exist in His Will (and not the world's quarrels)? I saw Christ concerned with things other than governments while upon the earth (people's salvation through Him and getting the Good News spread throughout the continent).

I do not believe there will ever be full justice in this world as long as human leaders exist (and men following men versus God). My hope is in God's Kingdom...not this world lasting.