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MeetChristians.com / Forums / Biblical & Theological Issues

No. 0     Original Topic:  tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Sep 10, 2017 at 10:49 AM   Viewed 1946 times     
No. 1     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Sep 11, 2017 at 5:19 AM     
Okay ... so what is " YOUR " response to this Insular ???
No. 2     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Jeff74996   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Sep 11, 2017 at 8:23 PM     
I have a completely different take on the subject. The girl in the video has only been a Christian for 5 years. Most of us (20+ year Christian veterans who have studied the Word) can say by now, "Been there, done that."

I have been in churches that preached giving 10 percent of your income to the church. I watched as one poor mother, who could barely feed her own kids and pay the rent, give 10 percent of the money she desperately needed - hoping that God would bless her. I know some people have testimonies about how God blessed them after they tithed to the church, but she didn't, not under my observation. But I did take note that the preacher didn't go hungry - and was dressed quite well, drove a late model car, had his own parking space. And the church was looking into buying an 80,000 dollar organ. I went to another church where the preacher harped on paying tithes, and they were building new offices while the church buses were in need of repair. I don't like this modern idea of tithing. I think it is not from God at all. In fact, I wrote a book on the subject back in 2011. Yes, I researched the topic from Genesis to Revelation, from the early church down through the history of changing dogma from voluntary offerings to demanding tithes in the church. If anyone is interested, here is the link to Amazon's listing of my book. You can click on the picture of the book for the "Look Inside" feature for free.

https://www.amazon.com/Gods-Economy-Tithe-Testament-Giving/dp/098347740X
No. 3     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 12, 2017 at 7:02 AM     
Pretty much in agreement with Jeff.

It is no secret that I do not hold with a Christian tithe, for it is not Christian. The New Covenant knows nothing of a tithe for believers, even though the tithe is briefly mentioned in the New Testament referencing Old Testament teachings.

No matter - in the case of this video I did view it when Brad first posted it but didn't give it much attention as it was not well-done at all in defense of tithing, and if I were an advocate of tithing, I WOULD NOT use this video as a persuasive argument.
No. 4     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Sep 12, 2017 at 7:57 AM     
RadioPreacherMan wrote:

Okay ... so what is " YOUR " response to this Insular ???



I'd be interested in hearing from ya, Insular ... whenever you get the chance to do so. If not, that's okay.
No. 5     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Verbatim   Gender: F   Age: 64   on  Sep 12, 2017 at 8:02 AM     
Tithing was for the Levitical Priesthood, there was no need to be carried over into the New Covenant. The tithes were all given to the Levites, and out of their tithes the tenth was given to the priests.


The Levites Portion

Numbers 18

21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

22 Neither must the children of Israel henceforth come nigh the tabernacle of the congregation, lest they bear sin, and die.

23 But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance.

24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

25 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

27 And this your heave offering shall be reckoned unto you, as though it were the corn of the threshingfloor, and as the fulness of the winepress.

28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD'S heave offering to Aaron the priest.

29 Out of all your gifts ye shall offer every heave offering of the LORD, of all the best thereof, even the hallowed part thereof out of it.

30 Therefore thou shalt say unto them, When ye have heaved the best thereof from it, then it shall be counted unto the Levites as the increase of the threshingfloor, and as the increase of the winepress.

31 And ye shall eat it in every place, ye and your households: for it is your reward for your service in the tabernacle of the congregation.

32 And ye shall bear no sin by reason of it, when ye have heaved from it the best of it: neither shall ye pollute the holy things of the children of Israel, lest ye die.

In Hebrews 7.5 the payment of tithes by Israel is part of the argument that the Aaronic priesthood is inferior to that of Christ...

And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
No. 6     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Verbatim   Gender: F   Age: 64   on  Sep 12, 2017 at 8:24 AM     
I must add...

Giving and tithing are two entirely different occurrences...and from what I see in the video, that gal has the two mixed up.
No. 7     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  another84   Gender: M   Age: 50   on  Sep 12, 2017 at 8:36 AM     
Matthew 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Mark 12:17 Then Jesus told them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." And they marveled at Him.
Luke 20:25 So Jesus told them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

What is God's?

That would be the question we as Christians would need to answer.
Did Jesus give 10% in order for us to be saved?
Jesus gave what was needed.
No. 8     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Jeff74996   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Sep 12, 2017 at 12:02 PM     
Verbatim wrote:

I must add...

Giving and tithing are two entirely different occurrences...and from what I see in the video, that gal has the two mixed up.


True. And we are to be givers. Not money to televangelists or big institutions (although there may be some exceptions here), but whenever and wherever we confront real people in real need - in our every day walking around life - be it food, gas, help with chores or other needs, rides, whatever, and yes, even money. Nothing like paying a water or electric bill anonymously for some unsuspecting brother or sister in need. And the blessings are enormous on the giving side!
No. 9     Reply: Re: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Kari   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 12, 2017 at 1:12 PM     
Jeff74996 wrote:

Verbatim wrote:

I must add...

Giving and tithing are two entirely different occurrences...and from what I see in the video, that gal has the two mixed up.


True. And we are to be givers. Not money to televangelists or big institutions (although there may be some exceptions here), but whenever and wherever we confront real people in real need - in our every day walking around life - be it food, gas, help with chores or other needs, rides, whatever, and yes, even money. Nothing like paying a water or electric bill anonymously for some unsuspecting brother or sister in need. And the blessings are enormous on the giving side!


Amen to that Jeff. We are examples of God's love. To each other and to a dying world. I have seldom known greater joy spiritually than when I have given as I saw the need.

I think too many churches beat their congregation with the concept of tithing. Laying more guilt than conviction. More fear than joy.
No. 10     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Devaprakash   Gender: M   Age: 73   on  Sep 12, 2017 at 9:05 PM     
Christianity is about sharing, serving and suffering. Jesus wants to empty ourselves. So being satisfied with some tithing doesn't help that; it may help a church (that assures hatching, matching and dispatching, but eternal life doubtful!) and its pastor!
No. 11     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 13, 2017 at 1:26 AM     
another84 wrote:

Matthew 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Mark 12:17 Then Jesus told them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." And they marveled at Him.

Luke 20:25 So Jesus told them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

What is God's?

That would be the question we as Christians would need to answer.
Did Jesus give 10% in order for us to be saved?
Jesus gave what was needed.


Another, I appreciate you bringing in this scripture here to consider.

Just bringing in further scripture here:

The Widow's Offering

Mark 12:41As Jesus was sitting opposite the treasury, He watched the crowd placing money into it. And many rich people put in large amounts. 42Then one poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which amounted to a small fraction of a denarius. 43Jesus called His disciples to Him and said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more than all the others into the treasury.

2 Cor 9:7 Each one should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not out of regret or compulsion. For God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things, at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9As it is written: “He has scattered abroad His gifts to the poor; His righteousness endures forever.”

Matthew 23:22And he who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the One who sits on it. 23Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You pay tithes of mint, dill, and cumin, but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.



In giving (which as pointed out above 'could' be considered different than tithing), I think what is important is that we look at all things in perspective and to consider that the Lord has told His Disciples to give "ALL." (Matt 19:21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me).

With laws written upon our hearts, a focus on 'things' and 'concerns' about 'things' lacks wisdom as it is "purpose and one's heart condition" and not things that the Lord sought His Disciples to focus upon.

I imagine some think they can 'buy' their way into Heaven but the greater sin is worrying about what is 'not' of God (man's inventions/things) over the greater purpose we have been appointed to accomplish in life. We exist under "One" Commandment today (some say two). (John 13:34). The Lord's yoke is not burdensome (although man can often attempt to make "loving God and mankind" complicated.

“I judge all things only by the price they shall gain in eternity.” – John Wesley


No. 12     Reply: Re: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Verbatim   Gender: F   Age: 64   on  Sep 13, 2017 at 9:08 AM     
Jeff74996 wrote:

Verbatim wrote:

I must add...

Giving and tithing are two entirely different occurrences...and from what I see in the video, that gal has the two mixed up.


True. And we are to be givers. Not money to televangelists or big institutions (although there may be some exceptions here), but whenever and wherever we confront real people in real need - in our every day walking around life - be it food, gas, help with chores or other needs, rides, whatever, and yes, even money. Nothing like paying a water or electric bill anonymously for some unsuspecting brother or sister in need. And the blessings are enormous on the giving side!



I agree wholeheartedly...:thumb_up: and from God's Word. Sacrificial love...the fruits of the Spirit is about others not ourselves. Serving God with a true "servant heart" with compassion and care.
No. 13     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Verbatim   Gender: F   Age: 64   on  Sep 13, 2017 at 9:19 AM     
Acts 2.44-47


And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
No. 14     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Alter2Ego   Gender: F   Age: 40   on  Sep 23, 2017 at 6:31 PM     
Tithing was to be done only under the Mosaic Law. It was applied only to those of the Jewish faith -- prior to Jesus' earthly appearance and his establishment of the New Commandment.

Jesus Christ himself informs us that when he came to earth, he fulfilled the Mosaic Law, thereby making it obsolete.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17 -- New International Version)


Christians are not supposed to tith, since Christians were never under the Mosaic Law. Even today's Jews are no longer under the Mosaic Law, since, as Jesus himself stated at Matthew 5:17, he FULFILLED that Law.


Alter2Ego

______________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
No. 15     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Sep 24, 2017 at 7:08 AM     
I believe ... as God works within us ... He simplifies !

We " offer " ourselves and everything we have to the Good Lord ... being willing and available ... for however He leads each of us to give.

As we receive from Him ... as He guides ... we give ... it's that's simple.

A smile ...

A friendly hello ... :wavey:

A word of encouragement ... :wub:

A word of truth ... :exactly:

A financial contribution ... :twocents:

And on and on it goes ... whatever to whoever ... wherever. :2thumbs:

No. 16     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Tulip427   Gender: F   Age: 64   on  Sep 24, 2017 at 3:41 PM     
Tithing started already to Adam and Eve;s time. It wasn't tithing than . It was called burnt offering. Abel went out and looked for his whitest lamb , he could find with no blemishes. He gave this to God out of His Love to him, while Cain saw a obligation in it. He went out , threw some crop together to burn as an offering. Than he was zealous of his brother. We know the rest of the story.

When I think of tithing , my thoughts are not about money. My thoughts are what I can do for somebody else.
I look at the farmers and cattle men. If I had cattle , why not slaughter a cow , process it and give the meat to the not so fortunate. The same with eggs and produce out of the garden or field. Nobody in this country would be out of meat on Christmas Eve. Like I wrote before , only a thought
No. 17     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 25, 2017 at 9:58 AM     
Tulip427 wrote:

Tithing started already to Adam and Eve;s time. It wasn't tithing than . It was called burnt offering. Abel went out and looked for his whitest lamb , he could find with no blemishes. He gave this to God out of His Love to him, while Cain saw a obligation in it. He went out , threw some crop together to burn as an offering. Than he was zealous of his brother. We know the rest of the story.

When I think of tithing , my thoughts are not about money. My thoughts are what I can do for somebody else.
I look at the farmers and cattle men. If I had cattle , why not slaughter a cow , process it and give the meat to the not so fortunate. The same with eggs and produce out of the garden or field. Nobody in this country would be out of meat on Christmas Eve. Like I wrote before , only a thought


I like what you have written here. You are correct that we see tithing even before Mosaic law.

It is and was always a condition of the 'heart.' God does not change.

If viewing salvation in the form of giving (which I do not believe salvation is 'ever' deserved, but of grace), it would be from giving 'all' to the Lord (our heart, mind and soul)....

Matt 22:37 Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’



No. 18     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 26, 2017 at 11:14 AM     
Tithing before the Law:

- It was NOT a burnt offering.

- It only happened on TWO occasions (and NOT in Adam & Eve's lives)

- Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek only happened ONCE, so it was a TITHE, not TITHING

- The story of the tithe in Jacob's life is an example of ignorance, unbelief, and foolish bargaining with God. There is no reason for a believer in Jesus Christ to follow Jacob's example.

I would see the New Testament teaching of generous giving as a "condition of the heart," not the low-realm, obsolete, and defunct teaching of a tithe.

I can go on. I have LOTS of good teaching and information about this vastly misunderstood O.T. teaching.
No. 19     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 26, 2017 at 11:36 AM     

Abel was not held to 'law,' but offerings to the Lord predated Moses as a 'heart' condition. So let it be in each person's heart.

Genesis 4:4 Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering; 5but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard.

Adam was still alive.

Faith has always been the same as is God.

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous when God gave approval to his gifts. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.

mod to hilight scriptures offered here
No. 20     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 26, 2017 at 1:23 PM     
Coming back with more and separate thoughts that might be helpful in this thread.

Cut and pasted from Bible Study tools online (Easton's Dictionary):

Tithe [T]

a tenth of the produce of the earth consecrated and set apart for special purposes. The dedication of a tenth to God was recognized as a duty before the time of Moses. Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek ( Genesis 14:20 ; Hebrews 7:6 ); and Jacob vowed unto the Lord and said, "Of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee."

The first Mosaic law on this subject is recorded in Leviticus 27:30-32 . Subsequent legislation regulated the destination of the tithes ( Numbers 18:21-24 Numbers 18:26-28 ; Deuteronomy 12:5 Deuteronomy 12:6 Deuteronomy 12:11 Deuteronomy 12:17 ; Deuteronomy 14:22 Deuteronomy 14:23 ). The paying of the tithes was an important part of the Jewish religious worship. In the days of Hezekiah one of the first results of the reformation of religion was the eagerness with which the people brought in their tithes ( 2 Chronicles 31:5 2 Chronicles 31:6 ). The neglect of this duty was sternly rebuked by the prophets ( Amos 4:4 ; Malachi 3:8-10 ). It cannot be affirmed that the Old Testament law of tithes is binding on the Christian Church, nevertheless the principle of this law remains, and is incorporated in the gospel ( 1 Corinthians 9:13 1 Corinthians 9:14 ); and if, as is the case, the motive that ought to prompt to liberality in the cause of religion and of the service of God be greater now than in Old Testament times, then Christians outght to go beyond the ancient Hebrew in consecrating both themselves and their substance to God.

Every Jew was required by the Levitical law to pay three tithes of his property (1) one tithe for the Levites; (2) one for the use of the temple and the great feasts; and (3) one for the poor of the land.


Whether one's personal decision is to give at least 1/10th of all obtained to a Church or not ... it is not the matter on which salvation would hinge:

Matt 23:23 iWoe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and †anise and cummin, and khave omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

If Christians' dispute is just the definition of tithing ... 1/10th, I can see this. I think that giving though was always more important than the measurement given. Consider Job gave more that 1/10th and the Widow who offered all she had in the NT more than the rich man.

So Did the Lord Jesus tell a leper to tithe?

Matthew 8:2-4

2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.


Tithing we see in the NT as 'money,' but in the OT as 'food' (a change of the times). As far as giving, part of one's crop was to be left for the poor (a practice that ought to be still, but remains primarily abandoned today). The first of one's sheep sacrificed. I think it would be difficult in the day of food tithing to fully determine 1/10th, except likely easy with animals.

My own closing thoughts on the matter is tithing or giving (either one) is not a matter of salvation as is a man's heart. 100% of all one has to include one's very life belongs to the Lord if you are in the Lord.

Christians are graphed in and under Mercy/Grace (which was always the importance of tithing to begin with if considering it was food in the OT, while money exists in the NT).

Insular -- The woman in the video is failing to understand the importance of 'His grace,' resulting in salvation (not tithing or any other measure by man. I do tithe, but this does not save me. The woman's love in the video for the Lord in my own mind's eye is more important than anything and I do see her love for God).


No. 21     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 26, 2017 at 2:27 PM     
CAsandie wrote:


Abel was not held to 'law,' but offerings to the Lord predated Moses as a 'heart' condition. So let it be in each person's heart.

Genesis 4:4 Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering; 5but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard.

Adam was still alive.

Faith has always been the same as is God.

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous when God gave approval to his gifts. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.

mod to hilight scriptures offered here


Good verse, but it brings up a question you really should research out, Sandie -

Is the tithe and 'first fruits' the same thing in Scripture?

Answer...no. But don't take my word for it, check it out.
No. 22     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 26, 2017 at 3:02 PM     
CAsandie wrote:

Coming back with more and separate thoughts that might be helpful in this thread.


Me, too!



So Did the Lord Jesus tell a leper to tithe?


Did Jesus tithe?





Matthew 8:2-4

2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.


Tithing we see in the NT as 'money,' but in the OT as 'food' (a change of the times).


Who is "we"?

And if you use the New Testament as a qualifier, and money as the qualification, yet quote Jesus as saying "offer the gift that Moses commended...", then you have just created a paradox - Jesus in the NT telling someone to use the OT "food" and offer that to the priests.

Sounds pretty confusing to me.




As far as giving, part of one's crop was to be left for the poor (a practice that ought to be still, but remains primarily abandoned today).


What about the poor? Were they to tithe also, even while others were (presumably) 'tithing' (offering food) to them?

Follow-up question - Are poor Christians to tithe?


As one can see, the more stretched out your theology becomes (stretched out defined as over-interpreting Scripture), the more that theological (and actual) problems arise.
No. 23     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 26, 2017 at 7:30 PM     

Storm -- I would say the more you try to find fault in a post or the more condescending a person is to another that that would likely create problems and confusion.

As I stated, I believe tithing was 'always' a heart condition (albeit understanding the Dictionary definition of 1/10). What use does God have for the offering, but it is action upon one's 'faith.' As far as the poor giving, Jesus commented on the Widow giving all she had.

Mark 12:41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. 42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. 43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: 44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

Again -- a heart condition.

I am not here trying to sell anyone any 'theology' as you suggest, Storm. I don't judge those who tithe or who do not tithe nor do I care to fight about whether one should or should not. As well, I recognize first fruits are different (to answer your condensing remark)... I see the 'heart' of the matter the same.

But thanks for suggesting I study. Yes, indeed -- it is good to study.

No. 24     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 26, 2017 at 11:35 PM     
CAsandie wrote:




I am not here trying to sell anyone any 'theology' as you suggest, Storm.


That's probably correct, as you tend to go into self-defensive mode when challenged. I could say more on that point, but if I did, we'd (meaning you and I) would get back into 'fighting' and neither of us finds that very productive. I'd much prefer a vigorous debate, rather than sniping.

No matter - though I am not interested in fighting, I AM interested in truth, and I will continue to expose the fallacies of of a 'New Testament Tithe,' or a 'Christian tithe,' whether or not someone finds my arguments "condensing" or not.

And if someone, whether you, CAsandie, or anyone else, is mistaken about what the bible teaches, it will be pointed out. I would expect nothing else for any mistaken views I might have. In fact, I would welcome them, for biblical truth is more important then agenda to me. That means I must listen as well as speak. I'd much prefer listening to objective arguments, rather than perceived hurt feelings. Keep it objective. I intend to.

So much for personalities. Tomorrow I will get back to the subject and point out some other fallacies that have been expressed as 'biblical.'
No. 25     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 26, 2017 at 11:45 PM     
In the spirit of an open debate, does anyone else have any answers to the several questions I asked in post #22?
No. 26     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Sep 27, 2017 at 7:12 AM     
Stormchaser wrote:

In the spirit of an open debate ...



Here's what came to my mind ... not that I am directing it at you Stormchaser ... but I wonder at times ...

Do people come with the SPIRIT of an open debate ??? ... OR ...

Do they simply have a NEED to fulfill a DESIRE to have an open debate ???

Okay ... that's all I had ... at this point of time. Proceed



No. 27     Reply: Re: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 27, 2017 at 11:24 AM     
RadioPreacherMan wrote:

Stormchaser wrote:

In the spirit of an open debate ...



Here's what came to my mind ... not that I am directing it at you Stormchaser ... but I wonder at times ...

Do people come with the SPIRIT of an open debate ??? ... OR ...

Do they simply have a NEED to fulfill a DESIRE to have an open debate ???

Okay ... that's all I had ... at this point of time. Proceed





Not sure the reason for the question, RPM.

Looking at your two points and addressing them to myself, I would have to say I might be 'guilty' of both -

- I've mentioned that my attitude is for open debate. That means I am open to dissenting opinions, and that I will listen to them. As an example, in post #21 I complimented CAsandie for bringing up Gen.4:4, a verse that apparently disproved my earlier statement that the pre-Law tithe was mentioned in only two places in scripture.

That verse deals with first-fruits (or what has been known as 'The Law of the Firsts').

'First-fruits' does not deal with the O.T. tithe. After some research, I mentioned that to CAsandie and she responded that she knows that (which begs the question of why then did she bring it up in a debate about the tithe), but the point to be made here is that I didn't know that, and my guess is that 99% of Christians do not know that.

So I said "good verse," and I meant it, for instead of responding with a knee-jerk reaction as many would, I did what you do at times (go 'silent', briefly) and hit my studies, and I found out that first-fruits was not the tithe.

But still, it was an excellent verse to bring up, and she deserved my respect and compliment, for (at least) there she engaged in open debate, and I learned from it...from listening to her.

- As to your second point, that is a little more ambiguous. Is having "a NEED to fulfill a DESIRE to have an open debate" a bad thing?

Perhaps you could explain more fully?

At any rate, this is a side-issue. The debate is whether or not the tithe is a Christian doctrine. As a pastor, I'm sure you have opinions on this. Feel free to share. I will attempt to be gentle.
No. 28     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 27, 2017 at 12:04 PM     
I am going to make a brief point about "New Testament" tithing. If anyone would like to debate the point further, I will be open to that.

I am NOT open to personal attacks. Just sayin'...

Several N.T. verses have already been mentioned or quoted in support of a 'New Testament Tithe' but if we really wish to be biblical, we must understand that the 'New Testament' argument in favor of the tithe is really apropros and not relevant.

Why is that?

Because the tithe comes from the Mosaic Law, based on the Old Covenant (NOT the Old Testament, for the tithe was neither pre-Law, nor post Law - someone might wish to take issue with that - Bring it on!).

So we are talking COVENANTS here, not testaments. In Jesus' time, the Law was still in effect! The New Covenant did not exist. If one wishes to make the argument that Jesus taught the Old Covenant tithe, in a sense He did, for He advocated keeping the Law, and the Law was still in effect.

The New Covenant did not begin until Jesus' death on Calvary, so obviously while He lived, the covenant itself did not exist; the Church did not exist; and the New Testament (really, the New Covenant) principles of free-will and generous giving did not exist...yet.

The point being, when one argues a 'New Testament' tithe, they are in actually arguing a misnomer - it is not the New Testament that has relevance in any such discussion; it is the New Covenant, and the New Covenant nowhere teaches a mandated tithe.

The N.T.verses used by Christians in mistaken support for a New Covenant tithe are actually verses where the Old Covenant Law was still in effect, including during the life of Jesus! So the parts of the New Testament where the tithe is mentioned are where the Law was still in effect...until Calvary. So the tithe was still in effect...until Calvary. Calvary began the New Covenant, and that's when the Law, and the tithe, no longer held sway.



As mentioned, there is more that might be said or argued about this, including other verses from Hebrews and other books that supposedly are about the tithe, and we can debate those if desired.
No. 29     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 27, 2017 at 12:44 PM     
storm wrote: which begs the question of why then did she bring it up in a debate about the tithe


Does it beg of any question 'if' it were an appreciated verse as you state in the rest of your post? Hmmmm....I'd have to ponder the 'question' then "if" "you feel or suggest here" that I offered scripture for any other reason than discernment.

Storm wrote: The debate is whether or not the tithe is a Christian doctrine.


I do not see your guidelines or this debate offered in Insular's OP. But if it were in accordance to your guidelines set then I have offered no debate here. My posts offered here offer this (repeated now many times): Tithing was always a matter of the heart, (the 1/10 or the 'law' never did save, but rather it was God's Promises. We are saved as a gift by Who and what is greater: God's Mercy/underserved kindness. Faith is not merely a word though, but a life force. 100% of one's soul, mind and heart should be given to the Lord [what else has the Lord truly asked for today]?). If this theological view is confusing, then as you suggested of me to study ... I would suggest prayer in study for guidance for anyone lacking understanding.

Bidding all peace here.


No. 30     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 27, 2017 at 2:52 PM     
CAsandie wrote:



Storm wrote: The debate is whether or not the tithe is a Christian doctrine.


I do not see your guidelines or this debate offered in Insular's OP.


What do you see, then? Did Brad make a statement, other than posting the video?

No, he did not.



What do we see from the video icon, then?

These words -

"THE IMPORTANCE OF TITHING"

and

"TITHES AND OFFERINGS
(subtitled) Giving Back to God"

WHAT IN THE WORLD DO YOU THINK WE ARE TALKING ABOUT???




But if it were in accordance to your guidelines set then I have offered no debate here. My posts offered here offer this (repeated now many times): Tithing was always a matter of the heart, (the 1/10 or the 'law' never did save, but rather it was God's Promises. We are saved as a gift by Who and what is greater: God's Mercy/underserved kindness. Faith is not merely a word though, but a life force. 100% of one's soul, mind and heart should be given to the Lord [what else has the Lord truly asked for today]?). If this theological view is confusing, then as you suggested of me to study ... I would suggest prayer in study for guidance for anyone lacking understanding.


Well that sounds very lofty, and kind of up in the clouds, and if that's the extent of your position (since you say you offer no debate), then I guess we can let it go


"Tithing was always a matter of the heart"
This statement I find interesting. You have made it a couple of times, but I'm not sure it is true. It may be, but I have suspicions otherwise. I am in the middle of researching it and I'll check back in with a fuller evaluation when I am ready.
No. 31     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Jeff74996   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Sep 27, 2017 at 9:00 PM     
Tithing in the Old Testament always consisted of produce and livestock. It was either given to the priests and Levites, or on the third year the tithe of produce was stored up within the cities for the Levites, widow, orphan and stranger (Scripture does not say that this was a separate tithe, but merely what to do with the tithe of produce on the third year).

That third year tithe, which included the widow, orphan and stranger, had attached to it, a statement made by the tither to ask the blessings of God.

The tithe of the Old Testament was for the economy of Israel under the Law, to feed those who had no means to feed themselves - priests and Levites served the LORD and did not have their own land or livestock. Widows, orphans an strangers were in the same condition. Under God's economy, everyone got fed. Money was NEVER part of the tithe, but money was used in the Old Testament for the upkeep of the temple, and taken from a different source.

For the last two thousand years there has been no temple, no priests or Levites. The tithe is over. However, if you read church history, and particularly the dogmas of the Church in Middle Ages, you will most certainly find how what originated as free will offerings to help the poor evolved into mandated tithes of money. The fact that is that for the last couple of hundred years, churches have been using Malachi's "robbing God" passage to fleece the flock - all the while taking from those for whom, in the Old Testament, the tithe was intended to support - the real recipients. So who has been robbing God?
No. 32     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 28, 2017 at 11:01 AM     
Let’s go back to my (mainly) unanswered questions I put out in post #22, as I think answering them will throw out more light on the issue.

Did Jesus tithe?

Response? – No answer given.

No. There is no scripturally recorded statement that He did.
Additional comments on this at the end.



Who is "we"?

Response? – No answer given.

Even so, we should examine the statement that lead up to my question –





Matthew 8:2-4

2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.


Tithing we see in the NT as 'money,' but in the OT as 'food' (a change of the times).


Who is "we"?

And if you use the New Testament as a qualifier, and money as the qualification, yet quote Jesus as saying "offer the gift that Moses commended...", then you have just created a paradox - Jesus in the NT telling someone to use the OT "food" and offer that to the priests.

Sounds pretty confusing to me.


1. First of all, the Matt. 8 passage, where it mentions, “offer the gift that Moses commanded,” appears to be referring to a special thanks-offering, not a tithe.

2. As I mentioned in the quote, money was not what Jesus was referring to. Money was NEVER part of the tithe.

3. It is stated that ‘money’ in the Old Testament was seen as food. This is absolutely not biblical.. As Jeff said in post #31. “Money was NEVER part of the tithe, but money was used in the Old Testament for the upkeep of the temple, and taken from a different source. “

Money existed in O.T. times and was widely used. Genesis alone contains “money" in 32 texts and the word occurs 44 times before the tithe is first mentioned on Lev. 27. The word shekel also appears often from Genesis to Deuteronomy. Therefore any argument that money was not prevalent for everyday use is false.

So, when I ask, “Who is “we”?it certainly is a legitimate question, for any source that that states or implies that money was not used in the Old Testament is certainly mistaken, and should be looked upon with askance.

But as mentioned, no answer was given.



What about the poor? Were they to tithe also, even while others were (presumably) 'tithing' (offering food) to them?

Response? An answer was given –

As far as the poor giving, Jesus commented on the Widow giving all she had.


And Mark 12:41 is given as a text, the story of the Widow’s Mite. The problem with this answer is that it doesn’t address the tithe – it addresses a freewill offering, so in reality it doesn’t answer the question.

My answer is this: No, the poor were not to tithe. Instead, part of the tithe was to go to them. They could participate in freewill offerings as they were able, but it was never mandated that they were to tithe.



Follow-up question - Are poor Christians to tithe?

Response? No answer given.

My response –

1. No Christian needs to tithe as the tithe is ONLY Old Covenant, and Christians are part of the New Covenant. I’d recommend reading (my) post #28 to gain a further understanding of this.

2. Even if the tithe was continued for Christians, tithing was not a minimum required from all old covenant Israelites. Only those Israelites who earned a livelihood from farming and herding were required to tithe under the Mosaic Law. Their increase came from God’s hand. Those whose increase came from their own crafts and skills were not required to tithe products and money. The poor and needy who did not tithe and received from the tithe gave freewill offerings.

And so, getting back to Jesus tithing, the life he chose to live pretty much kept him poor, but even if he used his carpenter skills to make a living, he would not have been required under the Mosaic tithing laws to tithe.

And so many or most Christians, even if true that tithing was still required, would not have to tithe as they, for the most part, are not farmers or herdsmen.

Yet the traditional church insists upon a tithe, with all sorts of bad theology, bad arguments, and shaming to get it.
No. 33     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 28, 2017 at 12:37 PM     
Jeff --

Jeff74996 wrote: Tithing in the Old Testament always consisted of produce and livestock. It was either given to the priests and Levites, or on the third year the tithe of produce was stored up within the cities for the Levites, widow, orphan and stranger (Scripture does not say that this was a separate tithe, but merely what to do with the tithe of produce on the third year).

That third year tithe, which included the widow, orphan and stranger, had attached to it, a statement made by the tither to ask the blessings of God.

The tithe of the Old Testament was for the economy of Israel under the Law, to feed those who had no means to feed themselves - priests and Levites served the LORD and did not have their own land or livestock. Widows, orphans an strangers were in the same condition. Under God's economy, everyone got fed. Money was NEVER part of the tithe, but money was used in the Old Testament for the upkeep of the temple, and taken from a different source.


Thank you Jeff. Wonderful examples. This was my point about food/spices being tithing in the OT. What is so beautiful to me about it is that when truly considering the 1/10 -- it was always 'giving' one's 'own' livelihood (not a purchase of salvation) as to the act.

The Revelation of Christ and understanding of Mercy is not something the Pharisees understood. I still do not understand why today (self righteousness?). For that matter, I have never understood why satan just does not beg forgiveness and seek obedience...

but (not to digress off topic), the older I believe humans become, the more many of us realize that 'excess' should be given to others and to greater purposes in the Lord's Will in those who come to understand the Lord's words: it is greater to give than to receive).

It is also ministry that we recognize as our livelihood today (as food) and I would access as greater in worth in the NT (the scripture of Christ telling Peter to feed His flock comes to mind as well as the following passage in Acts).

Acts 20:34 You yourselves know that these hands of mine have ministered to my own needs and those of my companions. 35In everything, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words of the Lord Jesus Himself: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

For the last two thousand years there has been no temple, no priests or Levites. The tithe is over. However, if you read church history, and particularly the dogmas of the Church in Middle Ages, you will most certainly find how what originated as free will offerings to help the poor evolved into mandated tithes of money. The fact that is that for the last couple of hundred years, churches have been using Malachi's "robbing God" passage to fleece the flock - all the while taking from those for whom, in the Old Testament, the tithe was intended to support - the real recipients. So who has been robbing God?


At the small Baptist Church I have been attending, the money is circulated to the needs of those in the Church [the Pastor is not wealthy] and mostly used for Missionary work (greater than what I myself do today). The idea of a 'glad' giver is a pleasure to the heart to me for this reason.

Do conglomerate institutions use free will giving incorrectly? I'm sure they do, since this is a fallen world. We see false teachings and even worse false love in many a Christian.

What a refuge we have in Him though!


No. 34     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 28, 2017 at 3:31 PM     
Hopefully the idea of a 'Christian tithe' has become quite clearly a falsehood, what with the numerous posts that reveal the 'O.T.' tithe for what it is - Old Covenant only, defunct, obsolete, etc.

When I first membered with MC, I probably would not have dared to debate the question, as Evangelicalism in America has been warped and twisted around the idea that Christians must tithe, though I must admit that at that time I was not sufficiently well versed enough in Scripture to make such a dissenting argument anyways.

Now days, things are changing. Sure, way too many Christians still don't have a clue about this, depending on pulpit teaching rather than going to the Word themselves, yet knowledge and wisdom seems to be increasing with at least parts of the church.

Home Church Christians seem to have a better propensity for understanding the elimination of the tithe than Traditional Church Christians - probably because HC Christians are not tied to a building/edifice (Old Covenant) theology but rather a 'one-another' (New Covenant) theology that does not depend on buildings for life - a sort of a 'being-together' rather than a 'building-together' concept.

In fact, on this thread itself, there are 3 different house-churchers making good (I would call biblical) arguments against a defunct tithe that no longer serves a good purpose for New Covenant Christians.

Not that I don't believe TC'ers can't make the theological jump to understanding New Covenant theology, but it IS harder, what with the emphasis on buildings and whatnot that they have to overcome from Old Covenant indoctrination from the pulpit. Yet the flight from traditional churches continues to grow, and the tithing demands undoubtedly contribute to that flight.
No. 35     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Kari   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 28, 2017 at 5:11 PM     
I've been a christian since I was 19. I would estimate that for the first 10-15 years of my walk,we were tithing on every penny that came in our household. Unlike my husband though, I never felt convicted that it was what we were required to do. I think he did it from being indoctrinated with the church teachings that we had to tithe. Later, we gave more as we felt led, in offerings and to missions. Surprisingly it was probably close to the same amount, but it was done from the heart and not from the feeling of being out of order if we didn't.

I understand giving as unto the Lord... even in tithing. If that is your hearts desire. Feeling blessed to do it, being faithful to your conviction. But too often a tithe is given because you are falsely believing it's a requirement and that your giving it is based more on the fear of sinning or being disobedient if you don't. Knowing the watchful eyes of the "church" is keeping tabs on you... and the disapproval that comes when you don't tithe.

Thanks for the discussion you have offered, Storm. Great insight.

No. 36     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 28, 2017 at 7:15 PM     
Kari wrote:

I've been a christian since I was 19. I would estimate that for the first 10-15 years of my walk,we were tithing on every penny that came in our household. Unlike my husband though, I never felt convicted that it was what we were required to do. I think he did it from being indoctrinated with the church teachings that we had to tithe. Later, we gave more as we felt led, in offerings and to missions. Surprisingly it was probably close to the same amount, but it was done from the heart and not from the feeling of being out of order if we didn't.

I understand giving as unto the Lord... even in tithing. If that is your hearts desire. Feeling blessed to do it, being faithful to your conviction. But too often a tithe is given because you are falsely believing it's a requirement and that your giving it is based more on the fear of sinning or being disobedient if you don't. Knowing the watchful eyes of the "church" is keeping tabs on you... and the disapproval that comes when you don't tithe.

Thanks for the discussion you have offered, Storm. Great insight.



We were all fooled; lied to, Kari. Thanks for your final comment.

I tithed, even to 'past the point where it will hurt.' Isn't that what they tell us to do? I have two great reference books exposing this. Both authors also tithed...until they woke up.

And we can't blame it all on the pastors. Granted, any man whose sole or primary source of income is based on being paid from the tithe will have a very difficult time reconciling that to what God's Word really teaches.

But we can blame it on the organized church system, and that system teaches the Law, gives us the manipulative pulpit indoctrination system, and pretends and says it teaches grace.

I know that sounds a little harsh, and certainly not all teaching from the pulpit is fleshly, but waaay too much of it is and 'pastors' need to begin to wake up and speak God's truth, as taught in His Word.
No. 37     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 30, 2017 at 10:19 AM     
Jeff74996 wrote:

Tithing in the Old Testament always consisted of produce and livesto The fact that is that for the last couple of hundred years, churches have been using Malachi's "robbing God" passage to fleece the flock - all the while taking from those for whom, in the Old Testament, the tithe was intended to support - the real recipients. So who has been robbing God?


One of my resources mentions this and other ungodly methods to fleece the flock -

(chapter titles)

DISINFORMATION I

The church has been defrauded of its glorious spiritual inheritance in Christ by spiritual disinformation - wrong doctrine that destroys the power of Christ's work o the cross.

Analysis and exposé of wrong teachings such as:

  • The tithe is the Lord's.

  • If you don't tithe you are a God-robber.

  • A curse will come on you if you don't tithe.

  • We are commanded to prove God with the tithe.

  • Tithing rebukes the devourer.

  • The tithe is the connection to the covenant.



DISINFORMATION II

  • Jesus tithed

  • Jesus taught tithing

  • The tithe redeems the other ninety percent.

  • Tithing qualifies you to receive more from God.



DISINFORMATION III

  • Tithing began in the garden of Eden.

  • When Jesus died on the cross, God was paying his tithe.

  • If you don't tithe, God will take that ten percent from you.

  • If everyone tithed, churches would have plenty of money.

  • Heaven will be shut up against you if you don't tithe.



I don't immediately have on hand the details of any one point, but if anyone is interested in an individual point, I can read & relay what is said.
No. 38     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Tulip427   Gender: F   Age: 65   on  Oct 2, 2017 at 11:55 PM     
Tithing c0mes from the heart. If the heart is not in it, tithing becomes meaningless. It doesn't have to be money. It can be spending time in a food panrry helping as an advocate in domestic violence or in prison ministry Jesus said"What you done to others , you have done to me" I also understand how a church is run by. It takes money to up keep a church,with insurance, repair , pastorial wages. cleaning and so on, I was a council president once. So I have an insight about up keep of churches. I didn't mean to underline . my computer does it and I don't know how to get rid of this problem
No. 39     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Oct 3, 2017 at 10:08 AM     
Tulip427 wrote:

Tithing c0mes from the heart. If the heart is not in it, tithing becomes meaningless. It doesn't have to be money.


As pointed out earlier, both by Jeff and myself, it was never about money.



It can be spending time in a food panrry helping as an advocate in domestic violence or in prison ministry Jesus said "What you done to others , you have done to me"


Here you mistake the tithe for the generous giving of one's time in ministries. The tithe was never defined as this anywhere in Scripture! You are mixing up definitions with no biblical license to do so.



I also understand how a church is run by. It takes money to up keep a church,with insurance, repair , pastorial wages. cleaning and so on, I was a council president once. So I have an insight about up keep of churches.


Here is stated, in this person's own words, the true misunderstanding of what a New Covenant Church is. The defunct and Old Covenant tithe is only part of the problem.

For the last 1900 years, we have left the paradigm of the New Testament (New Covenant church) that Jesus and the Apostles left us, and instead degenerated back into the O.T. temples and buildings paradigm of the Law.

So yes, though this particular thread is about the tithe, the problem is much deeper than that. We are being taught from the pulpits to follow the Law, support the temple, the building mentality, and we lose much of the New Covenant by doing so. We have been impoverished by this outdated teaching of a system that was never meant for Christian believers.
No. 40     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Oct 3, 2017 at 11:28 AM     
Tulip427 wrote:

Tithing c0mes from the heart. If the heart is not in it, tithing becomes meaningless. It doesn't have to be money. It can be spending time in a food panrry helping as an advocate in domestic violence or in prison ministry Jesus said"What you done to others , you have done to me" I also understand how a church is run by. It takes money to up keep a church,with insurance, repair , pastorial wages. cleaning and so on, I was a council president once. So I have an insight about up keep of churches. I didn't mean to underline . my computer does it and I don't know how to get rid of this problem


Hi Tulip,

Glad to see you post again. Most Christian Churches use the word "offering." I have not attended any Churches in my life time that used the word 'tithing,' but we will also find that many do not understanding what 'tithing' is...

In Leviticus law, there were three 'tithes' (some might argue reasonably there were 4). One was compelled much as a taxation (although one can argue the purpose a matter of the heart). Corban is an offering from the heart to the Lord that was set at a minimum of 10%. It was sacrificial in nature. We [we meaning human beings who read] see in Scripture, Job offering more sacrifices than necessary and it was determined by the Lord that Job was greater in some fashion among his people. Was this determination by the Lord based on matters beyond that of the heart? (Job's love for the Lord)? What was the test given to Job?

Today as I have stated above several times (albeit seemingly misunderstood), I do believe the sacrifice is "all" in accordance with the teachings of Christ.

We see people today quarrel without reason a lot of times (me being one but growing and learning to ignore things that I ought not to partake in). Are we hearers of God's Word or doers and although free of the law, does it remove the tenants of the first Covenant with the Lord and His People? It's all questions that individuals will have to ask themselves if being prudent in one's love for God. In Romans we find this scripture:

Romans 2:13F or not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


It's quite an interesting scripture (to be sure the entire chapter is quite interesting, so I will offer a bit more there):

17Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 18And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.


29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Those in the OT (or of the NT) who have not truly sacrificed or given from the heart might have not 'truly' tithed before (if it be for oneself or one's own salvation as a 'law' then it is not of the heart at all nor would I view it as actual 'giving' but in a selfish manner ... I'd view it as receiving).

Genesis 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, 21So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: 22And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.


Tithing and offering is often thought the same as for the matter of the 'heart' in giving among some Christians. As I have stated [albeit it might be misread above], I will not judge one uses the word tithe or who does not. I do know that giving from one's heart is the Lord's lesson to His followers (and I believe it always was whether accomplished by men of old or not).

As I have aged, I give people and doctrines attempted to be fed by any human this litmus test: 'that I (and others) should be as wise as a serpent, but as gentle as a dove.' So I ask what master would a teaching serve (satan or my Lord). It is without doubt that the lack of 'giving' (regardless of debate over a word's meaning or the measurement in which one gives) would leave missionaries 'under or unfunded.' It is certain Churches would fold as they haven't the means. The Lord's Will that the Gospel reach every ear is paramount to the end being ushering in (albeit people can imagine all sorts of things more important in our lives). This Gospel is salvation (not theological quarrels that offer less than this and what the Lord Jesus Himself did teach us)...

Did Jesus teach against or for tithing and what is the heart of the matter in sacrifice. These are the real questions that matter in my own litmus test given above.

Yet, people find themselves wise in doctrines of men?

So we see all the anti-tithing websites/pages amply against tithing online (some saying even it is a sin) and we see all the definitions (is the meaning only 1/10 and applicable in Leviticus law or was it only acceptable always by God if it were a matter of one's heart)?

Christians that are Gentiles debate, accuse and justify as the Leviticus Law was never applicable to them (us). But "we" (humans) who have eyes to read scripture hopefully come to understand:

(My personal bottom line is the topic): regardless of a word's definition or the 1/10th applicability to the Gentiles who are freed men, Christ gave 'all' to the Church and with prayer: we (Christians or humans that read the Bible) might all be doers and givers for the Lord and His purposes and aid those Who are like minded and follow Christ (Who gave 'all' to the Church).

(Tulip, you do not need to apologize for underlining whether intended or not intended). Thanks for offering your thoughts whether fully agreeing or not, I do see Scriptural thought offered and it is appreciated. May you be blessed.

No. 41     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Oct 3, 2017 at 12:47 PM     
--- oops ---
No. 43     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Oct 3, 2017 at 1:00 PM     
CAsandie wrote:

Most Christian Churches use the word "offering." I have not attended any Churches in my life time that used the word 'tithing,' but we will also find that many do not understanding what 'tithing' is...



Every (traditional) church that I have attended has used the word 'tithe.' Every. Single. One. They may not preach about it all the time (one church I went to taught about it every February...like clockwork, or, more appropriately, machine-like).It is central to the most important thing to them, money, though often hidden in spiritual-sounding language, such as "God loves a generous giver." Oh, they may at times refer to 'offerings' but the meaning is QUITE clear - they are in pursuit of money (and let's remember Scriptural teachings that tithes ARE NOT MONEY).

But back to the churches, they may refer to 'tithes,' or they may at times refer to the word 'offerings,' but if they go more than one sentence in on this, it becomes "tithes & offerings"; nearly 100% of the time in my experience. And what it means to them is also quite clear; tithes are mandated money (I don't really see them desiring what the tithe really brought in - agriculture and meat), and THEIR idea of 'offerings' would be additional FUNDS (money) over and above the mandated MONEY, like icing on a cake. Hardly biblical, but again, covered in stealth language of 'generous giving' and 'not robbing God.'

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought about engaging in debate with you, Sandie, about your arguments that often seem to be 'it doesn't matter what words we use' point, for 'it's more important where our heart is' conclusion, but since the OP video icon asserts "Tithes and Offerings." it does give you the license to argue over and above the tithe, at least in discussing offerings, so I'll not go into your often flowery language in discussing the whole issue and seemingly merging definitions into 'what is important.'

Fact of matter, you are right when you say where our hearts are is most important. That is what is behind the whole idea of New Covenant/Testament giving - that of a generous heart.

Even so, if we ignore the practical aspects of biblical teaching of the tithe specifically, then when in engaging in that sort of ignorance, it is too easily abused by those in Christian churches who have agendas of 'keeping the machine going', hidden in talk of 'generous givers' and 'generous hearts.'

No. 44     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Oct 3, 2017 at 2:18 PM     
Hi Storm,

Storm wrote: Scriptural teachings that tithes ARE NOT MONEY


I have to scratch my head here then, since you found fault with my post above when pointing out in the OT that tithing was 'subsistence' (food; to include spices)?

Yet to suggest what you have here about Scriptural teachings, what do you say of the widow who gave more when she gave all she had (money)? (still subsistence).

What did Christ teach of the widow's offering? Was it good or bad?

Storm -- I have stated clearly (to most, I'm sure) that Gentiles were never subject to the law.

As far as your desire to 'debate' -- I do not think your issue is with me. If it be with the Churches, I do feel many are lukewarm and others worse (there are false prophets and teachers out there that act as a prostitute in which to fleece the flock). Yet, clearly not all. Whether in a home or a building set aside for gathering...the Brethren exists. It is for us to distinguish where our heart rests, which if any gathering or Church to Praise the Lord should be and where our subsistence exists. Mine is with the Lord.

This is my 'only' address/post/response to you in this thread.

No. 45     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Oct 3, 2017 at 2:26 PM     
Verbatim wrote:

Jeff74996 wrote:

Verbatim wrote:

I must add...

Giving and tithing are two entirely different occurrences...and from what I see in the video, that gal has the two mixed up.


True. And we are to be givers. Not money to televangelists or big institutions (although there may be some exceptions here), but whenever and wherever we confront real people in real need - in our every day walking around life - be it food, gas, help with chores or other needs, rides, whatever, and yes, even money. Nothing like paying a water or electric bill anonymously for some unsuspecting brother or sister in need. And the blessings are enormous on the giving side!



I agree wholeheartedly...:thumb_up: and from God's Word. Sacrificial love...the fruits of the Spirit is about others not ourselves. Serving God with a true "servant heart" with compassion and care.


In full agreement and thank you for adding this scriptural relevance (in a separate post above) ...

Acts 2.44-47

And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


:2thumbs:





No. 46     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Oct 3, 2017 at 4:16 PM     
CAsandie wrote:

Hi Storm,

Storm wrote: Scriptural teachings that tithes ARE NOT MONEY


I have to scratch my head here then, since you found fault with my post above when pointing out in the OT that tithing was 'subsistence' (food; to include spices)?


Only had problems with your suggestion that the tithe, N.T. in particular, was about money. Not sure about spices - haven't looked into it.




Yet to suggest what you have here about Scriptural teachings, what do you say of the widow who gave more when she gave all she had (money)? (still subsistence).

What did Christ teach of the widow's offering? Was it good or bad?



I mentioned earlier that her giving was an 'offering,' not a tithe.


Storm -- I have stated clearly (to most, I'm sure) that Gentiles were never subject to the law.

As far as your desire to 'debate' -- I do not think your issue is with me. If it be with the Churches, I do feel many are lukewarm and others worse (there are false prophets and teachers out there that act as a prostitute in which to fleece the flock). Yet, clearly not all. Whether in a home or a building set aside for gathering...


My real issue is with Old Covenant forms, as well as teaching. The tithe is clearly Old Covenant when one delves into its nature. Many are also fooled into thinking that our present-day church organization is 'ok,' New Testament-based, etc. My position is that it is NOT, but rather is structured on Old Testament (Covenant) forms.

It is arguable, of course, and I rarely debate it any more, though I used to. And my position is not so much house church vs. traditional church (as you can have a TC structure in a house - chairs in rows with lectern in front as example), but rather the whole idea of a New Covenant mindset vs. an Old Covenant one.

I'm playing around with the idea of creating a new thread all about the New Covenant.
No. 47     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Oct 3, 2017 at 5:04 PM     
Hi Storm,

I think you took what I wrote out of context.

Addressing the widow though ... was the widow a Jew or a Gentile (does scripture state)?

An orthodox Jew will make a tithe (and they still do today but with money rather than livestock). A gentile -- an offering. That is my point about the 'meaning' behind the measure given always mattering more than the law. Although Orthodox Judaic religion does not require the poor to tithe, they can and do of free will. Jesus gave His life for the Church.

Offerings or Tithing does not save us though (we are saved through Christ's sacrifice), as I have stated above in post. We have one Commandment today and that is to love God and others as we do ourselves. Perhaps it is wise to consider this (each of us) when we give alms (another word given in the Bible that I feel has a 'depth' in meaning when considering giving and sacrifice). Alms can be labor as well (one of compassion and mercy).

As far as making a new thread on the New Covenant, my comment above is offered here rather than being involved. Thanks.



No. 48     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Oct 6, 2017 at 11:23 AM     
CAsandie wrote:

Hi Storm,

I think you took what I wrote out of context.


It has been known to happen



Addressing the widow though ... was the widow a Jew or a Gentile (does scripture state)?


The implication is that she was Jewish, but I have not seen any direct references where she was or not.

Most scriptural references about 'widows' refer to them being taken care of, which most likely means they were Jewish in the O.T., but since 'widow care' is mentioned in the N.T., they could easily be gentiles in that case also.


An orthodox Jew will make a tithe (and they still do today but with money rather than livestock). A gentile -- an offering. That is my point about the 'meaning' behind the measure given always mattering more than the law. Although Orthodox Judaic religion does not require the poor to tithe, they can and do of free will.



I just found some interesting information, and it kind of is in opposition of your basic focus on this matter. I didn't go looking for it just to put you down - it just popped up while I researching this.

The Story Of The Widow’s Mite: Do We Have It Wrong?
https://christianpf.com/the-story-of-the-widows-mite/


Wikipedia also has some input on this interesting take. (And yes, I realize Wikipedia is hardly a reliable biblical reference, but sometimes it has some interesting information)...

Lesson of the widow's mite
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesson_of_the_widow%27s_mite


I'm not here to argue this new information, and I'm rather sure you will have a dissenting viewpoint. That is fine; I am only throwing it out there for some contrasting information for you and anyone interested in it.
No. 49     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 13, 2017 at 1:53 PM     
I believe the very reason death is seeking after me is because I didn't give 10 percent of my farm checks to The Lord.
No. 50     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Oct 13, 2017 at 2:34 PM     
insular926 wrote:

I believe the very reason death is seeking after me is because I didn't give 10 percent of my farm checks to The Lord.


A lie from satan has entered your mind. Death does not seek you.

No. 51     Reply: Re: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 13, 2017 at 3:58 PM     
CAsandie wrote:

insular926 wrote:

I believe the very reason death is seeking after me is because I didn't give 10 percent of my farm checks to The Lord.


A lie from satan has entered your mind. Death does not seek you.

Ah but death IS seeking me and I don't have long, tonight will be the time of death and we're talking about eternal separation from God and my family.
No. 52     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Oct 13, 2017 at 11:29 PM     
insular926 wrote:

I believe the very reason death is seeking after me is because I didn't give 10 percent of my farm checks to The Lord.


If such lies on your conscience, then you simply repent and give what you are able and led to now.
No. 53     Reply: Re: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Oct 14, 2017 at 9:55 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

insular926 wrote:

I believe the very reason death is seeking after me is because I didn't give 10 percent of my farm checks to The Lord.


If such lies on your conscience, then you simply repent and give what you are able and led to now.


I agree. Brad has allowed himself to be put under the Law again, which no Christian needs to be chained to any longer.
No. 54     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 14, 2017 at 2:40 PM     
WHat I'm telling you guys is the truth, God has shown me that I'm no longer His.
No. 55     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Oct 14, 2017 at 10:32 PM     
insular926 wrote:

WHat I'm telling you guys is the truth, God has shown me that I'm no longer His.


Brad, if you will please entertain me and read my new thread in GD on thankfulness and our focus in life. It might have been written for you. <3

You are His! You are not cursed. Suffering in itself is not a curse, Brad. I have modified to give you this scripture (it might be on point):

1 Peter 2:20 How is it to your credit if you are beaten for doing wrong and you endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in His footsteps.

Do not be shaken and do not fear and do not worry, Insular.

No. 56     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Devaprakash   Gender: M   Age: 73   on  Oct 15, 2017 at 1:18 AM     
insular926 wrote:

CAsandie wrote:

insular926 wrote:

I believe the very reason death is seeking after me is because I didn't give 10 percent of my farm checks to The Lord.


A lie from satan has entered your mind. Death does not seek you.

Ah but death IS seeking me and I don't have long, tonight will be the time of death and we're talking about eternal separation from God and my family.


Death will seek you whether you pay or not. Have you sought eternal life through Jesus Christ with humility, admitting your limitations and sins?
No. 57     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM     
Then it was this, I didn't choose the blessing so I was left with a curse when I didn't buy the car that God had for me.



Deuteronomy 11:26-28King James Version (KJV)

26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;

27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:

28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.
No. 58     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Oct 15, 2017 at 4:57 PM     
insular926 wrote:

Then it was this, I didn't choose the blessing so I was left with a curse when I didn't buy the car that God had for me.



Interesting ... you didn't buy a car ... repeat ... A CAR ... so now you are saying you are " cursed " ... because of ... A CAR ?

No. 59     Reply: Re: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 15, 2017 at 6:37 PM     
RadioPreacherMan wrote:

insular926 wrote:

Then it was this, I didn't choose the blessing so I was left with a curse when I didn't buy the car that God had for me.



Interesting ... you didn't buy a car ... repeat ... A CAR ... so now you are saying you are " cursed " ... because of ... A CAR ?



DId you read the scripture? A car can represent a blessing, when you don't pick the blessing your left with a curse, don't like to say this but in my case it was true/.
No. 60     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Oct 15, 2017 at 7:31 PM     
Insular ...

Wouldn't you consider God's peace ... a gift directly from Him ... to be a better blessing ... over and above ... any " material " object ?

No. 61     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 15, 2017 at 8:08 PM     
RadioPreacherMan wrote:

Insular ...

Wouldn't you consider God's peace ... a gift directly from Him ... to be a better blessing ... over and above ... any " material " object ?

Yes but it still is insured that A Car was also a blessing.
No. 62     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Oct 15, 2017 at 8:16 PM     
Let's see ... God's Peace ... or ... A Car ...

Are you putting ... A Car ... over and above ... having God's Peace ?

No. 63     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Oct 15, 2017 at 8:37 PM     
Here you are ... kicking yourself over not having the blessing of one car ... when God's Peace ... God's Wonderful PEACE ... is way more of a blessing than any material possession ... right ?
No. 64     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 15, 2017 at 8:52 PM     
RadioPreacherMan wrote:

Here you are ... kicking yourself over not having the blessing of one car ... when God's Peace ... God's Wonderful PEACE ... is way more of a blessing than any material possession ... right ?
Right
No. 65     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Oct 16, 2017 at 2:00 PM     
Insular -- You are His. You have not sought out foreign gods as the scripture you present above is about...

28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

In following your discussion with RPM here (sorry to come in late here)...I am offering the following Scriptures:

John 14:27 “Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.”

John 16:33

“These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Colossians 3:15
15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.


YOUR LOVE for HIM proves you have not failed the Lord, Insular. Prayers of Peace sent.


No. 66     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 16, 2017 at 9:48 PM     
Everything has been coming to a crescendo and I'm down to going to the fiery furnaces of Hell tonight.
No. 67     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Oct 17, 2017 at 2:41 AM     
insular926 wrote:

Everything has been coming to a crescendo and I'm down to going to the fiery furnaces of Hell tonight.


You need to tell satan to get behind you in regards to thoughts that do not rest in the Promises and the Mercy of a God Who deserves all Glory (He does not need 1/10 of farm proceeds or a Honda, but He does deserve to receive all Praise)....this is what the Lord states:

Matthew 11:29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

(The law/tithing never saved ... it was God's Covenant with man that saved man. Our Covenant today is one of love).

Focus on Praising Him (your focus is off and I pray it returns to His Glory and off what you do or do not do. Ask urself why you are shorting the smart car. I see it as a blessing). Peace prayed for.


No. 68     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Oct 17, 2017 at 5:38 AM     
No. 69     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 17, 2017 at 3:17 PM     
As my Sunday School Teacher said I'm going to have to endure God's Punishment for this one, for not getting the Honda, very sad and yet it's hard to understand why God would want to get involved but He does.
No. 70     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Oct 17, 2017 at 3:42 PM     
insular926 wrote:

As my Sunday School Teacher said I'm going to have to endure God's Punishment for this one, for not getting the Honda, very sad and yet it's hard to understand why God would want to get involved but He does.


Then you see that Discipline is for 'learning' and in no way removes salvation or His love. Then I am glad your eyes are seeing clearer (although I think your sufferings are not because you did anything wrong or right and recommend only a strengthening of one's faith and focus on Him in praise and thankfulness). You are failing to view your car now as a blessing (that honda had more miles for certain)!

Beyond this, if you so chose to believe you are being disciplined then I offer you this scripture for truth:

Hebrew 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, or lose heart when He rebukes you. 6For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises everyone He receives as a son.” 7Endure suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?

<3 <3 <3 <3 !!!



No. 71     Reply: Re: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 17, 2017 at 5:55 PM     
CAsandie wrote:

insular926 wrote:

As my Sunday School Teacher said I'm going to have to endure God's Punishment for this one, for not getting the Honda, very sad and yet it's hard to understand why God would want to get involved but He does.


Then you see that Discipline is for 'learning' and in no way removes salvation or His love. Then I am glad your eyes are seeing clearer (although I think your sufferings are not because you did anything wrong or right and recommend only a strengthening of one's faith and focus on Him in praise and thankfulness). You are failing to view your car now as a blessing (that honda had more miles for certain)!

Tonight will be the first night of the discipline and boy is it going to be harsh.

Beyond this, if you so chose to believe you are being disciplined then I offer you this scripture for truth:

Hebrew 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, or lose heart when He rebukes you. 6For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises everyone He receives as a son.” 7Endure suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?

<3 <3 <3 <3 !!!



No. 72     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Oct 17, 2017 at 6:14 PM     
RadioPreacherMan wrote:





Remember this good ole hymn Insular ?
No. 73     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 17, 2017 at 8:27 PM     
Yes!
No. 74     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 18, 2017 at 9:05 AM     
Ya'all still don't get it, I am on my last throws of life because of this, I can't go back and tell them I want the car and punishment is waiting for me.
No. 75     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Oct 18, 2017 at 9:09 AM     
:pray:
No. 76     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  Verbatim   Gender: F   Age: 64   on  Oct 18, 2017 at 10:19 AM     
Legalism (or nomism), in Christian theology,

is the act of putting the Law of Moses above gospel by establishing requirements for salvation beyond obedience, repentance and faith in Jesus Christ and reducing the broad, inclusive, and general precepts of the Bible to narrow and rigid moral codes.
No. 77     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 18, 2017 at 12:28 PM     
I just can't believe that this has happened to me, why me?
No. 78     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Oct 18, 2017 at 1:18 PM     
insular926 wrote: I just can't believe that this has happened to me, why me?


Why Job in the Bible? Did Job do anything wrong? To the contrary, he did well in accordance to the Lord.


It is good to 'desire' to take responsibility for life's events and the struggles we face in life, but satan roams the earth seeking prey. I am offering you this scripture (please take this deeply to heart):

1 Peter 5:7 Cast all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you. 8Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9Resist him, standing firm in your faith and in the knowledge that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kinds of suffering.

Move forward with Praise to the Lord, singing hymns, giving thanks, knowing things could always be worse, knowing the Lord's Promises are solid and you can depend upon the Lord. Stop seeking to blame yourself for suffering but instead resist suffering (exchange this for peace [inner joy]) and strengthen your faith, strengthen your desire only to glorify the lord in all you do and say -- then the curse you imagine will have no choice but to leave (satan that is). <3


No. 79     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 18, 2017 at 5:41 PM     
Think about it, my soul has been lost, utterly lost.
No. 80     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 19, 2017 at 1:17 PM     
WHen the choice of the car came down, I was like well, this is the first car I looked at so there wasn't anything to compare it to, this was my thinking anyway not realizing that it was going to be my last.
No. 81     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Oct 19, 2017 at 7:52 PM     
:popcorn:
No. 82     Reply: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  JesusIsLord81333   Gender: M   Age: 87   on  Nov 4, 2017 at 10:55 AM     
Back to the subject, Tithes and offerings, I talked to a man who said, in a church he once attended he took up so many offerings they began calling him"Brother offering" :smile:
No. 83     Reply: Re: Re: tiths and offerings..   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Nov 10, 2017 at 8:23 PM     
JesusIsLord81333 wrote:

Back to the subject, Tithes and offerings, I talked to a man who said, in a church he once attended he took up so many offerings they began to call him "Brother offering" :smile:


--