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MeetChristians.com / Forums / General Discussion

No. 0     Original Topic: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 2, 2017 at 4:26 PM   Viewed 556 times     
This has been on my heart for over a decade: what is of God and how do we know it is of God?

Scriptures state the earth will vomit up on itself (Lev 18; Isiah 2; Matt 24:6). We see in the Bible, that the Lord can use kings and regular people to protect his people, but we see the point of 'protection' and "salvation" beyond that of Sodom's destruction (Lot saved). We see the Great Flood and we see the coming of the total destruction of earth ... then a new Heaven and new Earth. We also have the rainbow and the Lord's word:

Genesis 9:12God said, "This is the sign of the covenant which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all successive generations; 13I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and the earth. 14"It shall come about, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow will be seen in the cloud 15and I will remember My covenant, which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16"When the bow is in the cloud, then I will look upon it, to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth."


So we know the earth to be consumed with fire that comes like a thief in the night (an unknown hour) and made anew via credible Prophecy of the Bible (2 Peter 3:10). We know nothing more, but not to fear, yet I see 'hysteria' and 'earthly focus' among many claiming to walk in the Spirit today ...

Revelation 2:10 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who is victorious will not be harmed by the second death


As far as the end times, many take this scripture to mean 10,000 years prior to the final curtain call of this world and things of it (man's/satan's inventions). The 'time' is not important, but rather walking in His Rest and Grace 'today' and remaining in the Father's Will and being 'cautious' to 'only' walk in 'HIS' Will. If the time of the end was so important, then Christ would give us the exact hour, minute and second. He did the opposite. Take heed of this/rewards follow.

To suggest 'God' is punishing 'anyone' with what we call natural disasters (we exist in a fallen world and not paradise 'yet') holds the potential of 'blasphemy' and is dangerous if we worship Him in Spirit. If it is not true that California is being punished because it is blue or Texas being punished because it is red or for any other 'worldly/political' reasoning, it is then a potential 'untruth' against our very maker. We need to watch our tongues, because by them we shall be judged (Matt 12:37), let alone our deeds (Romans 2:6). We are judged independently -- not by political party (this is where our focus ought to lay...and where 'real' religion is practiced [i.e. charity; James 1:27]).

Think about it. Who do you bow to and are you doing so with 'all' your heart? (Matt 22:37)

If you love this world and this life -- you will lose it (Matt 10:39).

The days are getting shorter and the time is coming nearer I see and so many are quarreling over the state of worldly affairs and unimportant matters. Yet, what is 'truth' is that the Lord has 'already' condemned the entire 'world' (all of it ... not just the muslim countries, but also the very spoiled US.

Just sayin (I am so tired of God being blamed and seeing a Christian message of 'condemnation' over that of 'salvation'). Whether we die young or old, in tragedy or in old age ... we are only 'victorious' if we surrender 'all' to the Lord (to include this world that is not our home). Our hope is not here, but 'greater.' Blaming can cause a lack of focus upon our very lives and salvation in Christ (it was/is not the Lord's focus, nor was punishment, but rather salvation was/is).

It hurts my eyes to see God blamed for things without full knowledge present of those accusing. This occurs in 'everyday' life when people say 'the Lord told me' -- but if 'evil' results from a deed or even in word ... chances are it was 'not' the Lord directing you regardless of how "good" anyone thinks they are.

(thanks for your thoughts and reading).

No. 1     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Sep 2, 2017 at 4:48 PM     
I must admit before I speak that I didnt read all that beucase its long. But to answer the question in short, Yes he is responsible becusae he does not stop it and he could if it wasn't meant to be happening. Thats how I look at it. you know that if it's meant to be... it will be, if its not meant to be...then it wont be. Everything that goes on in this world is up to a higher authority.
No. 2     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 2, 2017 at 5:02 PM     
TCG --

God is Love. God are Good -- All things from God is Good. Scripture in totality testifies to this fact.

You have stated your opinion. I'd like to hear from others (I am blessed if someone takes the time to read the long post that has been on my heart for years).

Thanks. I see you disagree with my OP. Still thanking you for your thought regardless.
No. 3     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Sep 2, 2017 at 5:08 PM     
when you talk about all things are of God yes they are but when you say he can only brings what good as we call good, well thats not true. He brings both good and bad for reasons man doesn't understand. Now what we see as bad isn't bad beucase God done it for a good purpose. He can send bad our way but he must do it for a good purpose. Just becuase we dont know what that purpose is exactly, does not mean he didnt send the things we call bad. If he could only bring good then nothing bad would ever happen to man. And what man sees as bad is for a good purpose in God's eyes. Suffering has a purpose and we can see that verse after verse in the bible.
No. 4     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 2, 2017 at 5:31 PM     
TCG -- Again you have given your opinion. This time I will mention that you have provided no actual biblical support for your beliefs stated. Of course God created all things and we live in a fallen world (not paradise) and with this 'death' occurs. So in the garden man was warned. Man made a decision that was not God's fault ...

Albeit, you see it as okay to blame God here for man's disobedience because God knew beforehand that man would fall? So you who give your child the freedom to live must then blame yourself when she or he fails in life, correct? (of course not. The son or daughter performs her own evil although you have created your son or daughter and tried your best to instruct the child to do well and good in life and to be 'obedient' to your instructions as a parent).

Nowhere in Scripture does it state God performs evil. He can not. He is not a man, but the creator of all. It is He, the Almighty who determines what is good and what is bad...not man (creating is NOT performing an evil. I offer Scriptural support here for this truth: FOR CERTAIN, WE SEE SATAN NOT GOD TESTING JOB AND CAUSING SUFFERING TO JOB, WHILE GOD PROHIBITED SATAN FROM TAKING JOB'S LIFE AND REWARDED JOB WITH BETTER THAN HELD BEFORE. GOD'S PLANS IS ALWAYS 'GOOD' FOR HIS).

Suffering is not good, TCG. The Lord 'turns' things 'new' and makes what is bad 'good,' while the opposite is true of his adversary.

God is Good and always Good.

Again thanks for your opinion regardless of disagreement; as you know, you have stated your beliefs here many times and you and I personally have disagreed many times (so thank you, albeit repeated/hope for a necessity, but not really knowing or seeing there is a need at this time -- so my desire is for other's thoughts here or for just someone to honor me with reading the long post that has been on my heart for years. Maybe I might learn something myself ).

No. 5     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Sep 2, 2017 at 6:40 PM     
my opinion is based on a bible.
No. 6     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 9:58 AM     
TCG -- It's based on your interpretation of the Bible. A Christian's interpretation is different as you know.

We've already accounted for our different beliefs many times in threads.

No. 7     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 10:11 AM     
This thread actually goes further than 'natural' disasters, but into 'individuals' thinking things are from the Lord that are not. I see it all the time and it's religious nuttery. I see it little different from the JWs marching up and down the streets of New York suggesting they know the very hour. I see Christians doing this and at the same time they heckle the JWs as if they are any different (hypocrisy). Then when their 'private' communication with the Lord amounts to 'evil' ... they then blame God and say: well God told me to do it. They to can misapply the Bible and say: well scripture tells me to do this.

Then addressing politics...Christ was politically 'innocent' and 'absent' of political involvement (so the Romans have stated, but not the Pharisees). The Pharisees (certain Jews -- not all) became judges themselves stretching martial law over its people suggesting it was from the Lord. I see an eye for an eye, but I see the human application corrupt (and Christ later showed man).

I see little has changed in life in viewing the Bible's testimony.

No. 8     Reply: Re: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 10:14 AM     
CAsandie wrote:

TCG -- It's based on your interpretation of the Bible. A Christian's interpretation is different as you know.

NO,A christians interpretation is no different at all. You lie. A christian listens to lying deceiving sinful preachers who doesn't know their you know what from a hole in the ground. You are prideful and claim all false things about yourself being all knowlegeable aobut a God you have never seen and do not know. You know no more than anyone else. But in your own eyes, you know it all. surprise casandie, you dont. You listen to your preachers private interpretation which is horrible. You should read the bible and use your own brain instead of blindly believing your ravening wolf in a church building near by.

You need to know just beucase I dont believe what you do does not mean im wrong. God hates pride in men, get rid of it casandie.
No. 9     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 10:38 AM     
texascowgirl283 wrote:

CAsandie wrote:

TCG -- It's based on your interpretation of the Bible. A Christian's interpretation is different as you know.

NO,A christians interpretation is no different at all. You lie.


God's Word does not agree with such.

Corinthians 1:18-through chapter 2 in the New Testament talks a lot about this. In short, it simply means that people who profess to be Christians but who do not possess the presence of God within them, through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, may be religionists or socially religious practitioners, but they fail to meet the biblical description of a person who is a biblical or born-again Christian as defined in 1 John, chapters 4-5, especially 1 John 4:13-17.

When a person has this type of intimate, indwelling reality of “Christ in us,” such a person is given a special type of relationship with God in which truth is more readily realized, perceived, and experienced. Illumination has to do with God guiding you in and toward “truth.” People without this indwelling, whether or not they ‘profess’ to be Christians (because professing and possessing are two different things), do not have the same capacity to apprehend truth as a person who legitimately enjoys a relationship with God through Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God.
No. 10     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 11:15 AM     
Thanks Survivor.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

TCG -- My OP is against 'religious nuttery.' In truth, you ought to be on my side in this matter rather than seeking quarrel, calling names, etc.

But to address your quarrel with Christians (as I recognize your posts are not against me personally now (after you explained this more than a few times to me), but you identifying me with a specific Christian image you hold in your mind)...

You assume Christians do not read the Bible (but you've argued this point over and over with me and I have delivered 'zero' insult to you or name calling).

You argued it above, but I will repeat myself again here: Christians are the most judgemental that I know upon the earth and Pastors held under greater scrutiny (I gave the scriptures to you above).

Here I am calling out 'some' religious 'quakery' TCG. I do not follow my pastor as I told you before -- although he is a great teacher (he is a man ... not God).

I do not know real rChristians that follow men, tcg. It would be a sin. Your pastor Larry R. Smith was incorrect in his analogy of 'stupid' blind sheep worshiping men...yet, you believe him.

No. 11     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 12:00 PM     
As far as Jesus and politics go, I have heard Christ referred to as the ultimate politician.
No. 12     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 12:03 PM     
CAsandie wrote:



To suggest 'God' is punishing 'anyone' with what we call natural disasters (we exist in a fallen world and not paradise 'yet') holds the potential of 'blasphemy' and is dangerous if we worship Him in Spirit.



Some obvious questions arise from such a statement...

1. Does God not punish when He deems it necessary?

2. Does God use natural disasters to punish?

3. Does Scripture teach that God punishes with hurricanes?

4. More specifically, is Houston being punished by God?


As can be seen, each question is more specific than the last, but should ensure a good discussion of the topic.
No. 13     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 12:10 PM     
BTW - No where in God's Word does He refer to pastors and preachers as being the wolves in sheep's clothing. That is not to say such an individual cannot be, such can be amongst any walk.

That is a claim TCG often resorts to when she cannot grasp or understand God's Word as written, or when God's Word is clearly and obviously in conflict with her position.

The wolves in sheep's clothing are obviously amongst what TCG chases after out there on the Internet.
No. 14     Reply: Re: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 12:21 PM     
CAsandie wrote: TCG -- It's based on your interpretation of the Bible. A Christian's interpretation is different as you know.

We've already accounted for our different beliefs many times in threads.


Texascowgirl wrote: NO,A christians interpretation is no different at all. You lie. A christian listens to lying deceiving sinful preachers who doesn't know their you know what from a hole in the ground. You are prideful and claim all false things about yourself being all knowlegeable aobut a God you have never seen and do not know. You know no more than anyone else. But in your own eyes, you know it all. surprise casandie, you dont. You listen to your preachers private interpretation which is horrible. You should read the bible and use your own brain instead of blindly believing your ravening wolf in a church building near by.

You need to know just beucase I dont believe what you do does not mean im wrong. God hates pride in men, get rid of it casandie.


TCG -- looking back, did I say you were wrong and I was right? No. I said a Christian's interpretation of the Bible is different than your own. How is that a lie?

Beyond that ... I've tried to be kind in stating we've had these discussions before in other threads. This topic is not on "Universalist beliefs v. Christian beliefs. Your focus against Christianity or its pastors is all the time."

If you care to post the 10,000th post on the topic in unorthodoxed (or whereever) ... I might join in a thread on that topic, but after the 10,000th discussion on the 'exact' same thing ... and getting called names such as liar for no other reason 'except' I am Christian gets old.

No. 15     Reply: Re: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 12:31 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

As far as Jesus and politics go, I have heard Christ referred to as the ultimate politician.


:rofl:

Survivor -- I had not heard that one! (albeit, I might not agree with it -- it is funny).

On the off topic ... you are correct. Ravenous wolves in scripture is discussing 'false prophets.' TCG's pastor (Larry R. Smith) teaches they are Christian pastors (interesting he doesn't teach them to be of other religions such as the muslim religion)? Christian persecution is so easily 'dispelled,' and the cyber form (which is more like bullying via analysis) is a method readily used today.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Storm --

Actually this thread is three topics in one (the female brain is suggested to multi-task moreso than the male brain).

No. 16     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 2:07 PM     
TCG -- looking back, did I say you were wrong and I was right? No.

Yes, ever since you have known me. You think your right becuase some man you call your preacher said so. But thats just goofy talk from you.

How is your take any different than mine. You said my interpretation well its also your preachers interpretation that you speak. Atleast waht i see comes from a bible but what you see comes from your preachers private interpretation.
No. 17     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Judy757   Gender: F   Age: 62   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 3:54 PM     
CAsandie, that was a well written article. I would like to expound on it a little and offer my thoughts, but just suffice it to say, that it is a good article. Your scripture references were spot on.
No. 18     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 7:24 PM     

TCG -- Your pastor Larry R. Smith suggests Christians as brain dead.

You think you are right and fault me for my beliefs and suggest insult here? Beliefs are beliefs and yes ours are different (in most areas -- not all). Nothing new and off topic. I am Christian and you say you are not (so? Do you think insult will cause me to convert to your own beliefs)? You do no different than myself by having different beliefs. I see hypocrisy rather than logic in faulting me for not believing as you do and suggesting yourself to hold greater study and knowledge here and yet state you are not ruled by pride, but another is.

The truth as far as studying Scriptures though:

I believe I only know partial today. I started studied Scriptures (with a Dictionary in hand) on my own at a very young age (age 10). I set out after reading a Proverbs to write the Lord's Word upon my heart as a stone tablet. Christians agree and you might mistake this as a lack of self-study of Scripture, but there is seldom a lack (although some cases might exist). I took college courses in both religious studies and theology as well as one that included reading the entire Bible in which to study it to where more clarity existed...it was not taught by a Pastor nor a Christian (but a professor that took the Bible as literature, but appreciated it for its perfection).

We have not quarreled significantly over a year now and if you are trying to incite me here with off topic insults -- I'm sorry, I'm really not interested in quarreling with you (time is precious). I know threads are slow and quarrels few ... personally I like it that way.

I thanked you for what you wrote that held more so to topic. I thank you again and bid you peace.

mod typo
No. 19     Reply: Re: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 7:51 PM     
Judy757 wrote:

CAsandie, that was a well written article. I would like to expound on it a little and offer my thoughts, but just suffice it to say, that it is a good article. Your scripture references were spot on.


Thank you so much for taking the time to read this!

I wrote this terribly fast and I feared mixing the topics in one (not desiring to be confusing, yet I see the common thread in each instance of people 'stating' God is behind things whether in their mind, politics or with natural disasters and not submitting to the testimony of the Bible in their conclusions.

There of course are some scriptures that most certainly can support that God 'could be asserting punishment or control over any given matter in life, but to suggest one "absolutely" 'knows' would dangerously fall within category of potentially 'false prophecy.' (imo). Theories can intrigue people, but there is only one absolute truth I know and it's in the Bible.

I am certain all theories presented suggesting 'God' is doing this or that would then have to lead to His Glory and 'good purposes.' If not, I can not see how such suggestions are from the Lord and could fall under the life threatening category of blasphemy 'if' wrong.

That is why it's been on my heart as I witness those confessing themselves as Christians diving in those murky waters and terrains without seemingly realizing the danger they place upon themselves when suggesting anything of God, the Father Himself that is not written in Scripture.

I look forward to your thoughts on this and I thank you for honoring me by reading and appreciating the original post.

No. 20     Reply: Re: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 8:01 PM     
CAsandie wrote:


TCG -- Your pastor Larry R. Smith suggests Christians as brain dead.

You think you are right and fault me for my beliefs and suggest insult here? Beliefs are beliefs and yes ours are different (in most areas -- not all). Nothing new and off topic. I am Christian and you say you are not (so? Do you think insult will cause me to convert to your own beliefs)? You do no different than myself by having different beliefs. I see hypocrisy rather than logic in faulting me for not believing as you do and suggesting yourself to hold greater study and knowledge here and yet state you are not ruled by pride, but another is.

The truth as far as studying Scriptures though:

I believe I only know partial today. I started studied Scriptures (with a Dictionary in hand) on my own at a very young age (age 10). I set out after reading a Proverbs to write the Lord's Word upon my heart as a stone tablet. Christians agree and you might mistake this as a lack of self-study of Scripture, but there is seldom a lack (although some cases might exist). I took college courses in both religious studies and theology as well as one that included reading the entire Bible in which to study it to where more clarity existed...it was not taught by a Pastor nor a Christian (but a professor that took the Bible as literature, but appreciated it for its perfection).

We have not quarreled significantly over a year now and if you are trying to incite me here with off topic insults -- I'm sorry, I'm really not interested in quarreling with you (time is precious). I know threads are slow and quarrels few ... personally I like it that way.

I thanked you for what you wrote that held more so to topic. I thank you again and bid you peace.

mod typo

Casandie, I dont have a pastor but I do like some of his explanations of scriptures and he has tons of scriptures to prove everything he says. You just need to get passed his not liking "christianity" and listen to his explanations of scriptures and take notice of all his proofs. He really is an intelligent man. U just got to get over the fact he dont like what "christianity" teaches and look at all his proofs galore as to what the bible really says. He's not perfect as i see it he has satan and reborn wrong. But the rest of it seems so right.
No. 21     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 8:03 PM     
Casandie, I dont have a pastor but I do like some of his explanations of scriptures and he has tons of scriptures to prove everything he says. You just need to get passed his not liking "christianity" and listen to his explanations of scriptures and take notice of all his proofs. He really is an intelligent man. U just got to get over the fact he dont like what "christianity" and look at what he is posting and why.


mod. to capture what you posted as it keeps being modified and I am busy right now to wait until you are done modifying (sorry).

Off topic TCG (although you speak of him as someone you follow here which is what a pastor is. You already know that I'm not interested in Larry R. Smith having studied him already and I've given you my opinions of his teachings in unorthodoxed before (for which we quarreled heavily in the past).

Have a good evening though and thanks for your thoughts. God bless. Again bidding you peace.
No. 22     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Sep 4, 2017 at 8:15 PM     
its not off topic since you accused me of having him as a pastor. I dont have a pastor. And I dont agree with his reborn and about who satan is. I dont agree with him on everything. But he does speak alot of truths and with tons of scriptures. You simple just wnat to see "christianity" even if its wrong. You dont care but you should care what your being taught esp if alot of it may be false. And God knows he has a ton of proof. You are simply afraid to see something that may cause you to question your own preacher and you should question him for sure. myself im not afraid to listen to any religious group and and see what they say and why.
No. 23     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 5, 2017 at 3:43 AM     

TCG -- Review the OP to see the topic.

Okay if you say L. Ray Smith is not your Pastor. You can say this and even believe this, but you exist as his reincarnate here on MC attacking Christianity (I studied him even if you testify I have not).



No. 24     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Sep 5, 2017 at 7:39 AM     
Casandie I responded to what you accused me of and you know that so stop talking about the title of the thread. You cahnged it when you accused me. You should have left your comments about me out of this thread since this thread isnt about me or mr smith. So dont blame me if your thread is off track a bit....blame yourself for not controlling what flows from your mouth.
No. 25     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Verbatim   Gender: F   Age: 64   on  Sep 5, 2017 at 7:50 AM     
To whom this may concern:


Bicker, fuss and fight...why is this so common?


Sometimes it is best to sit down and shut up.

No. 26     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 5, 2017 at 2:25 PM     
Survivor wrote: When a person has this type of intimate, indwelling reality of “Christ in us,” such a person is given a special type of relationship with God in which truth is more readily realized, perceived, and experienced. Illumination has to do with God guiding you in and toward “truth.” People without this indwelling, whether or not they ‘profess’ to be Christians (because professing and possessing are two different things), do not have the same capacity to apprehend truth as a person who legitimately enjoys a relationship with God through Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God.


I am reminded of this scripture as well in discernment:

1 cor 13:2 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.


On the thread topic and related to the post you have offered here, how do we 'know' an activity in life (whether an action of ourselves, a natural disaster or political outcome) is of God. I think the answer could be easy.

I witness so many who profess to be Christians -- 'claim' things that I have no idea how they would know. Is it a gift of prophecy, discernment or a 'failure' that could lead to wrongful suggestions of God, judgement of others or a situation in which to exalt one's own agenda? Or is it just a 'self' desire they personally hold in which they support with suggested research or reasoning using the Bible as a source for their self interests?

I am offering this scripture in regards to your post hilighted here as well as the OP. I do not support that is it by 'faith' that we ought to assume 'punishment' of others (in disaster, in politics or our personal dealings), is it? In my discernment that would be self serving in consideration of what our Lord endured and how the focus ought to be on Him being 'exalted.'

Humans propensity seems to be that to judge outside of ourselves, but when 'boldly' representing God ... I see youtube videos and such where there seems to only be a representation of one's self interests, interest in the world and an inappropriate voice spoken for God.

2 Cor 13:4 For he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but in dealing with you we will live with him by the power of God.

5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!


Thanks Survivor.

No. 27     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Vickie   Gender: F   Age: 62   on  Sep 6, 2017 at 10:27 AM     
CAsandie wrote:

Just sayin (I am so tired of God being blamed and seeing a Christian message of 'condemnation' over that of 'salvation'). Whether we die young or old, in tragedy or in old age ... we are only 'victorious' if we surrender 'all' to the Lord (to include this world that is not our home). Our hope is not here, but 'greater.' Blaming can cause a lack of focus upon our very lives and salvation in Christ (it was/is not the Lord's focus, nor was punishment, but rather salvation was/is).

It hurts my eyes to see God blamed for things without full knowledge present of those accusing. This occurs in 'everyday' life when people say 'the Lord told me' -- but if 'evil' results from a deed or even in word ... chances are it was 'not' the Lord directing you regardless of how "good" anyone thinks they are.

(thanks for your thoughts and reading).



:goodpost:
God HATES sin but His wrath has been poured out on Jesus.
Yes! There are dire consequences for not accepting the redemption only Jesus could purchase! Yes, judgement day is coming!
It is very difficult to point to current events though and connect them with specific occurrences. In the old testament God often deferred His wrath a couple generations; payday did not come every Friday. It seemed at times true repentance softened the punishment but other times it was too little, too late.

It is also challenging to 'know' whom else God has saved.
We should be totally convinced of our own salvation. If we have truly worked it out in fear and trembling our lives are totally and forever changed. Anyone can find fault in me now, but if they knew me decades ago, even a few years ago, they can see I am greatly changed and still growing in the fruit of His Spirit.

I will never pat someone on the back and validate their sinful lifestyle. That is not love.
The 'God will get ya' approach is not terribly effective either.
The law convicts us of sin, that is important! It cannot however free us of those sins that grasp the soul and destroy us.
God's LOVE however frees us...not TO sin but FROM sin. Focusing on that love encourages people to press in and develop a relationship with Him.
The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.
Just a beginning...
I've been told God loves me.
I choose to believe He loves me because I find it in His Word.
This alone does not free me. Now I have to decide to seek Him with ALL MY HEART in order to know Him. It's difficult to want to draw close to someone who is angry and unforgiving. That is not the God I know and love. Once I experienced His unimaginable love, realizing the precious price He paid for my foolishness it became increasingly hard to sin. Not only did I experience the unfulfillment and disappointment of the brief satisfaction derived from sin but I had to weigh that against the horrific cost of those fleshly pleasures. We are created for so much MORE! Pleasing Him brings great joy, peace...all the fruit of His Spirit in our lives, today! It also changes us from this fallen state to the image of Him we were created to be. That is a lifetime process but the journey holds so many rewards!
No. 28     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 6, 2017 at 10:51 AM     
Vickie,

Amen for certain! (I enjoyed reading your entire post and thank you).

"He" is our example of 'love' when Christ stated upon the cross: 'forgive them Father for they know not what they do."

The price was paid, thereby opening up a "new' Covenant with man ... a Covenant written upon our "hearts." A greater love was given us than any else as our own example to follow.

1 Peter 5:6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, so that in due time He may exalt you. 7 Cast all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you.

Thank you for your thoughts here Vickie (a great post)!


No. 29     Reply: Re: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 6, 2017 at 11:17 AM     
Vickie wrote:


God HATES sin but His wrath has been poured out on Jesus.
Yes! There are dire consequences for not accepting the redemption only Jesus could purchase! Yes, judgement day is coming!
It is very difficult to point to current events though and connect them with specific occurrences.


I would say that would depend on how open one is to what God is saying through His prophets, which would, of course, imply one is open to the idea of present-day prophets.

As an example, Hurricane Harvey devastated Houston. Two years ago, a Christian prophet flew into Houston. As soon as his feet touched ground, he received a vision from the Lord that Houston would experience a flood and be devastated (not destroyed). He didn't know when, but he shared the vision at the time (this can be verified).

In the flesh we might ask why would God be part of such an event. Are not there many Christians in Houston? Would God wish this?

The answer might be that the previous mayor of Houston was a homosexual, and was very active in ungodly actions. I'm not only addressing personal immorality, but she sought to tear down God's righteousness in that city by the passing of several ungodly laws and attacking God's will for man.

Obviously in the flesh we might question such, and many Christians will. For myself, I just try to remain open to the fact that God is God, and according to His nature, will do what He deems necessary as Creator and righteous judge of all.
No. 30     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 6, 2017 at 11:29 AM     
Storm --

The question here in this thread would be ... was this occurrence you recorded below from the Lord?:

Storm wrote: As an example, Hurricane Harvey devastated Houston. Two years ago, a Christian prophet flew into Houston. As soon as his feet touched ground, he received a vision from the Lord that Houston would experience a flood and be devastated (not destroyed). He didn't know when, but he shared the vision at the time (this can be verified).


Or was it from the result of the alleged prophet protested against a homosexual mayor or the 'known' danger that Houston held for flooding for 20 years (please reference a post BF made in the TX flood thread)?

Most certainly I can say there will be disaster in most places in the US and 'not give a time.' (so could you).

The answer might be that the previous mayor of Houston was a homosexual, and was very active in ungodly actions. I'm not only addressing personal immorality, but she sought to tear down God's righteousness in that city by the passing of several ungodly laws and attacking God's will for man.


And so you feel that God's hand would reach out and not 'remove' His own as the Lord did with Lot (if we are going OT that is)?

.....

I appreciate the counter debate. Thanks for your post.

No. 31     Reply: Re: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 6, 2017 at 11:50 AM     
CAsandie wrote:

Storm --

The question here in this thread would be ... was this occurrence you recorded below from the Lord?:

Storm wrote: As an example, Hurricane Harvey devastated Houston. Two years ago, a Christian prophet flew into Houston. As soon as his feet touched ground, he received a vision from the Lord that Houston would experience a flood and be devastated (not destroyed). He didn't know when, but he shared the vision at the time (this can be verified).


Or was it from the result of the alleged prophet protested against a homosexual mayor or the 'known' danger that Houston held for flooding for 20 years (please reference a post BF made in the TX flood thread)?


Funny you should mention that, for after I just posted here I went to that thread and saw that post.

And you know what my thoughts were? Why is it that we have no problems with man's predictions (even though we choose to ignore them as well as ignore God's predictions) and even give them some sway, yet, as believers, when it comes to what may be predictions from God, we cast them aside?

Do we believe more in man than we do God? Obviously many of us do.


Most certainly I can say there will be disaster in most places in the US and 'not give a time.' (so could you).


Was not the prophecy specific enough for you?

The city was specifically identified.

The disaster was specifically identified.

The event happened in a fairly short amount of time as things go.


HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU REQUIRE TO UNDERSTAND THAT GOD IS SPEAKING?



The answer might be that the previous mayor of Houston was a homosexual, and was very active in ungodly actions. I'm not only addressing personal immorality, but she sought to tear down God's righteousness in that city by the passing of several ungodly laws and attacking God's will for man.


And so you feel that God's hand would reach out and not 'remove' His own as the Lord did with Lot (if we are going OT that is)?


What I "feel" is that God holds my life in His hands, to do so as He wishes. The Christians of Houston were not exempt from the effects of the flood, just as we Christians in general are not exempt from the woes of the world. If we were, secular man would hate us, and that would hardly help in God's purposes. This is a well known and accepted tenet in Christian theological circles. I have seen it in my studies of theology many times.
No. 32     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 6, 2017 at 12:09 PM     
Stormchaser wrote:

CAsandie wrote:

And so you feel that God's hand would reach out and not 'remove' His own as the Lord did with Lot (if we are going OT that is)?


What I "feel" is that God holds my life in His hands, to so as He wishes. The Christians of Houston were not exempt from the effects of the flood, just as we Christians in general are not exempt from the woes of the world. If we were, secular man would hate us, and that would hardly help in God's purposes. This is a well known and accepted tenet in Christian theological circles. I have seen it in my studies of theology many times.


It should also be made clear that Lot was warned of impending death, and he was obedient to that warning. God does give warnings, to both secular man and to His own people.

Houston was not destroyed, only devastated. Though there was some loss of life, it was comparatively light as disasters go. We don't know how many of the dead were believers, if any.

So the disaster, if indeed a sign from God, was not truly epic in loss of life, but rather a warning that was essentially meant to speak of further judgment down the road, calling the worldly to repentance. The disaster that Lot was warned of and escaped from was of TOTAL DESTRUCTION.
No. 33     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 6, 2017 at 1:13 PM     
Storm wrote: Was not the prophecy specific enough for you?

The city was specifically identified. The disaster was specifically identified. The event happened in a fairly short amount of time as things go [2 years is stated above by you Storm].

HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU REQUIRE TO UNDERSTAND THAT GOD IS SPEAKING?


Caps? Did you think I would not answer you?

Under the Old Covenant (OT) for which one compares for wisdom when testing prophecy, we find that Noah as a Prophet was given 'concise' and 'concrete' detail on the Ark (measurements). It was not a flash in the pan (so to speak). Not only was Noah given very concise instruction by the Lord, but Noah also 'proves' true to his prophecy. People saw Noah day and night working on the Ark (and so they mocked him, but his 'work' was seen ... so it was known that Noah believed fully as the work continued on for some time). Noah was chosen as was his family, so Noah worked day and night for all to see. There is little difference in viewing Moses.

Did you compare this modern prophet you speak of with these men (I am not stating you have, but I do see stark differences in that confusion would be left in the minds of 'an uncertain date and time' and lack of further venture for 2 years).

With Lot, we see the 'exact time and hour' was provided to Lot from his wife who failed and looked back.

God is not an author of confusion, so in my testing of the prophet you allude to, I'd have to question him in regards to further 'specifics [particularly time as the information is useless without a time frame] ,' since as I have stated and will once again ... Anyone can predict flooding in areas with insecure levees (scientists and gov workers warned Houston for years as well as Louisiana). Saying, I don't know 'when,' but a flood will occur in Houston is the same as Gov workers have stated. It was so predicted by gov workers in Louisiana as well. An earthquake will occur in CA as well.

Yet God is specific.

We are to test all prophecy against Scripture and the Prophets thereof, are we not if "one" is listening to God? I see individuals buying into much these days without adhering to the Bible's warnings.

As to floods and the loss of things, I see faith is needed moreso than prophecy as for today and the time we currently live in (this I say absent the tribulations to come that will be full destruction) ... So a question I would pose is this: what job does a Prophet have today that the Lord Jesus and Apostles did not fulfill...

Is it to worry? Is it an unspecific time frame and one saying 'save your house, clothing and self from a flood and dams failing? To me, I personally live in a day where God is less talked about than the world and faith needs built up by those following Christ (that to me is far more tragic than even the flood in TX). (a side note, btw).

Yes (for reasons given here), to my own discernment of the Lord delivering instruction without confusion, a time frame would be required (at a minimum, but moreso a greater message from the Lord 'unknown' to man (revelation) which was ALWAYS given to the Prophets in scripture, Storm.

Matt 6:25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?[g] 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.


No. 34     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 6, 2017 at 1:17 PM     
A friend is visiting out of town that I will be meeting up with soon (so for anyone posting here, please forgive any future delays in answering).


No. 35     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 64   on  Sep 6, 2017 at 3:05 PM     
I have someone talking to me (about something else) while I am typing this, so I have not giving you (CAsandie) the attention you deserve, but 'my' prophet is not really my prophet, but rather someone I found interesting and correct as far as he goes, but I do not 100% endorse him, but rather am watching him closely.

My point is not that he is infallible, but rather worth listening to - something I would not do if I was pretty much against prophecy and tended to criticism of that which I did not understand.

Anyway, I may cover more of this on my own thread.
No. 36     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Sep 7, 2017 at 7:05 PM     
Storm, just having a minute here. I am a believer of prophecy, healing, etc.

Thanks. Hope your day is good.




No. 37     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Sep 7, 2017 at 7:37 PM     
CAsandie wrote:

what is of God and how do we know it is of God?



I have read this thread a few times ... but nothing has come to mind ... until now.

What is of God ?

I believe " what is of God " will be made clear to us ... as we wait and trust in Him. He will " reveal " what we need to know, and help us accept what we do not need to know or understand.

How Do We Know it is of God ?

I believe ... over time ... what is of God ... will become stronger and what is not of God will fade out.

I also believe ... God " simplifies " and " supplies " whatever is needed and to let us know it is Him and only Him making all of the arrangements.

Sometimes ... I believe God is working behind the scenes in such a way where we may not even realize it at the time ... and may see it later on ... if He so desires to let us know.

I believe people are guided by Him and don't even know He was the one doing it.

God has some interesting ways of letting us know ... He is God. I have found it is " best to rest " in His loving care ... even if I do not always know or understand or be able to give an assessment or explanation about what's going on around me.

Living in a " tensed-up " world ... calmly and peacefully. :cloud9:

No. 38     Reply: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Sep 8, 2017 at 9:15 AM     
Christopher Columbus brought it all with him. We have no record of such disasters in America prior to Columbus.
No. 39     Reply: Re: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Vickie   Gender: F   Age: 62   on  Sep 8, 2017 at 12:22 PM     
RadioPreacherMan wrote:

I believe " what is of God " will be made clear to us ... as we wait and trust in Him. He will " reveal " what we need to know, and help us accept what we do not need to know or understand.

...

I believe ... over time ... what is of God ... will become stronger and what is not of God will fade out.

...

I also believe ... God " simplifies " and " supplies " whatever is needed and to let us know it is Him and only Him making all of the arrangements.



Yes!
He will reveal to me what I need to know. All in His good time. If something a prophet speaks confirms something God is speaking to me then YES, I will act on that information. I do not really need to understand much more than that.


Over time it does become clear what God was working toward. If we have eyes to see and ears to hear.



Yes, He is our provider and we must hear Him to know where that place of provision is OR when and where to fill those storehouses.
No. 40     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Religious nuttery / blaming God for all things / political worship   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Sep 8, 2017 at 12:26 PM     
Vickie wrote:


Yes, He is our provider and we must hear Him to know where that place of provision is OR when and where to fill those storehouses.


Correct. As followers of Christ, if we listen we will hear Him.