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MeetChristians.com / Forums / Unorthodox Doctrinal Discussion

No. 0     Original Topic: Division is not by man   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Aug 17, 2017 at 11:07 PM   Viewed 2138 times     
A continued discussion from MC (where it ought not to have been)...


Those denying Christ are without:

Matthew 10:33 But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven. 34Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn ĎA man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36A manís enemies will be the members of his own household. 37Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me; 38and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 40He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives the One who sent Me. 41Whoever receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophetís reward, and whoever receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous manís reward.


Remember that Christ is the Prince of Peace, so there is no cause to think dishevel would be erected without 'purpose.' He separates the tares from the wheat...just as man should not eat dangerous weeds. The parables are given us so that we might understand in human terms.

While creating this thread ... it is not for quarrel, so my response is to address the Lord's Word here (not my own).

No. 1     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Aug 18, 2017 at 4:00 AM     
I was wondering when you would bring that up but you have a false understanding of what that parable means. First, we aint talking about the end of the world. Second, That is not talking about division of men at all. God sees us all the same. One guy is no better than the next. It wouldn't hurt you to study that parable and other scriptures throughout the bible for understanding. IT is 100 percent sinful man that cause strife and division amongst people all throughout their life on earth. We are not talking about the end of the world casandie like that parable is nor is it the same type of division at all that you want others to believe. Parables are not to be taken in a literal sense. There is a truth to be gotten from parables but never the false one that you sadly have chosen to believe and spread to the world. And this is why his judgment must begin at the house of God/the churches first. They spread lies about him constantly deceiving the people as to who he truely is.
No. 2     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Aug 18, 2017 at 11:16 AM     
TCG -- please address the scripture -- not man.

I belief that you misunderstand Christianity.

Christians have love for all and want all to come to Christ rather than deny Him as Lord.

Please if you will 'reason' with this scripture (do not talk about your disdain for what 'you believe' Christian's believe, but rather the Lord's Word itself. If you desired to teach me -- now would be your chance to reason with this scripture rather than criticize, accuse or disparage Christianity.

In the scripture, I gave you the Lord discusses "rewards." Again address your interpretation (not Christianity or what you believe of Christian's interpretations).

Thanks!

I am also offering you this video as for a Christian's understanding of the worth of all men (and eagles and sparrows ... which is the passage just before what is in the OP written by the Lord...the worth of a sparrow). I offer this to you as for how Christian's walk (my own Dad and I cried over a lost sparrow we rescued and had such hope for, but the sparrow did not make it).

TCG -- MC is a forum in which many act with bad behavior (for which I too have fell guilty). It's not a good example of Christianity. In our reals lives: If you were my neighbor I'd likely offer help with your porch. I have gay neighbors whom I have helped with weeding. Today they help me as well. I had a neighbor with a land dispute that today we greet and are kind to one another. This is a 'walk' (here it is talk where 'retardiness' sets in unfortunately for which I have been guilty of too). It would not occur if face to face though and truly seeing the other, their lives and struggles as well as kindness (which I believe all real Christians have). Yet, this thread is 'not' about Christians, but Christ's words as given in the OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru0q_CH7Fso



No. 3     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Aug 18, 2017 at 4:50 PM     
This video has nothing to do with you saying it is not man that causes division when it is. So what you posted a video of man which does not prove nor disprove the title of your thread. Its nothing but a man who helped a bird and a drunk man but you dont have to label yourself a chrisitan to do that. All people help people. I helped a bird once too and I have given 100 dollars to a complete stranger and I have done many other nice things for people. Many of the worst criminals are animal lovers and help animals and humans too. All I can say about that man is welcome to humanity. He is no different than non christians or an athiest or anyone else. He's human period and being human we all do good things and bad things as well. we all fall short of the glory of God all while you teach most of mankind will have a bad ending, ya know the broadway ones, but the truth is we all have the same fate/ending. We are all going the broadway beucase we all fall short of the glory of God. But the broadway is not the end of man.

Christians do both good and bad and they teach both good and bad about God. What a man labels himself means nothing to me. You call church goers christians and I call them people/man which is why there is no reason to call a sinner a chrisitian unless you call them christians beucase they attend some church somewhere which still makes them no different than anyone else. Do you know how many christians are in jail or prison? They are not all good and even the ones that do soemthing good also do tons bad.

Christians whatever that is to you, divides people when they say christians vs non christians. thats division. We are all one nation under God, stop dividing us.
No. 4     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Aug 18, 2017 at 6:30 PM     
Again you are missing points made (the video was a 'throw in' and not the point, except the man acted upon God ... not his own interests).

This is what I would like you to address (not Christians, not non-Christians, not the National allegiance to the flag (where the phrase one nation under God comes from), not me, not you ... Scriptures solely/the Lord's Word):

Matthew 10:33 But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven. 34Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn ĎA man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36A manís enemies will be the members of his own household. 37Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me; 38and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 40He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives the One who sent Me. 41Whoever receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophetís reward, and whoever receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous manís reward.



Reason this scripture (not my or your opinions, but the Lord's). In other words how do you interpret this scripture. Thanks.


No. 5     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 9:15 AM     
God instructs us to not be of this world.
No. 6     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 11:36 AM     
but we live in this world therefore are of this world. Before our physical death, we are in and of the world.
No. 7     Reply: Re: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 10:48 PM     
Survivor698 wrote: God instructs us to not be of this world.


Thanks for this Survivor, yes, it is true as well.

TCG -- I might agree that this is implied in the verse we are reasoning, do you (repeated below):

Matthew 10:33 But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven. 34Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn ĎA man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36A manís enemies will be the members of his own household. 37Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me; 38and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 40He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives the One who sent Me. 41Whoever receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophetís reward, and whoever receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous manís reward.

There is "a lot" here in this verse. Where do you see this and what about the rest of the verse?

Thanks!

but we live in this world therefore are of this world. Before our physical death, we are in and of the world.


I do not see this in the verse we are reasoning solely in determination of what the Lord is telling us here about division.

So far we have:

1. Division from the world which we might agree upon. Why are we instructed this and what do you mean by world in your interpretation of this scripture?

Thanks!



No. 8     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 11:38 PM     
Casandie, the verse is not about dividing those that will be saved from those that wont. Its not that kind of division. If you want to pick up the cross and follow Christ then you must physically die. Thats the only way to not be in and of this world. However we are all going to die each in our own order appointed by God. So eventually none of us will be in and of the world and we will all follow christ.

And all sinners who are in and of the world, Well, God is not their first love.
No. 9     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Aug 20, 2017 at 2:08 PM     

Texascowgirl wrote: If you want to pick up the cross and follow Christ then you must physically die.


Where do you see 'physical' death in the scripture provided that we are reasoning?

Thanks!

No. 10     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Aug 20, 2017 at 3:39 PM     
It does not need to say physical death. We already know we are all going to die via old age, disease, weather disasters or some other way each in our own order as God has already appointed to mankind. There are two deaths mentioned in the bible, physical and spiritual. Many religious folks do not understand which death its talking about.

Today we are spiritually dead becuase we dont know God becuase we are flesh and blood which means we are living in a physical body and do not understand the spiritual things of God.
In the future we will be physically dead becuase thats our judgment for sinning. Hence the wages of sin is death and all men are appointed death beucase all men are sinners. That death is a physical one.

Remember let the dead bury the dead? well in that verse there are two kinds of death spoken about, the physically dead and the spiritually dead. The verse means let the spiritually dead who are still physically alive and live by the way of the world bury those that are physically dead. Just becuase the word physical is omitted does not mean its not a physical death. He just siad let the dead bury the dead but its very easy to understand that verse.

When you physically die, you no longer live by the way of the world. You are no longer in and of the world.


No. 11     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Aug 20, 2017 at 4:43 PM     

I am aware of your overall beliefs, TCG.

I posted this thread to reason the scripture given in the OP (repeated here):

Matthew 10:33 But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven. 34Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn ĎA man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36A manís enemies will be the members of his own household. 37Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me; 38and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 40He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives the One who sent Me. 41Whoever receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophetís reward, and whoever receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous manís reward.

If you do not care to provide your interpretation of this verse...then that is okay. I understand.

Thanks Survivor for your thoughts here.

God bless.

No. 12     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Aug 20, 2017 at 7:28 PM     
It's self explanatory. Problem is with the religious ones, thats only the cover now read the book.
No. 13     Reply: Re: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Aug 21, 2017 at 11:23 AM     
texascowgirl283 wrote:

It's self explanatory. Problem is with the religious ones, thats only the cover now read the book.


Again you are focusing outside of the 'Book' let alone the Scripture provided in your answer, TCG.

If it is self explanatory then you know division is not commanded by man...going all the way back to the Tower of Babble and further with the Israelites (God's chosen). Even keeping an idol from a foreign religion would amount to destruction. Looking back on Sodom could result in turning into a pillar of salt. In the flood only Noah and His family survived.

God doesn't change if one reads the 'entire' Bible, TCG. Here I only presented one Scripture, but it's a Scripture that 'says much' in regards to our 'devotion' to the Lord and what separates us from "Him" or not.

Rewards wished for you! (ending the discussion, but maybe someone else might care to jump in). I have a busy week this week coming up. Have a blessed day!

No. 14     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Aug 21, 2017 at 11:32 AM     
It is indeed a sinful man's doing. Man is full of hate and divides God's sheep. In your understand of God, you make him out to be a hypocrite and like a mere man. God's is not a mere sinful man. You will repent for thinking he is. If you read the bible you would know he is the savior of all men. You are going the broadway just like everyone else and get a changed/purified heart and mind becasue the one you use today is spiritually dead.
No. 15     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Aug 21, 2017 at 11:47 AM     
Now on this I agree ...

Man is full of hate and divides God's sheep.


(satan's work), but the fact that there are 'sheep' and 'goats' -- let's consider this (is it all man's will or is there a relationship with God Who is Almighty and Divine)...

Here we find some 'huge' divisions via Christ the King...

:2thumbs:

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.


Continuing on because I love these verses as they depict 'true' religion:

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


Divided indeed regardless of what you believe hell to be or not.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


(again ... perhaps another might want to pick up here / I will be having a busy week, but did want to post the agreement on man's errors against 'His' sheep).

No. 16     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Aug 21, 2017 at 12:41 PM     
all sinners are goats and we are all sinners. Everyone's heart and mind will be changed/purified when resurrected. God has no bad outcome/ending for any of his creation. He is a sinfree God and does not have bad intentions for anyone. Read the whole bible not just a part of it. The bible does not end with the verses of your choice.
No. 17     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Aug 21, 2017 at 1:03 PM     
I do agree the Bible does not end at any single verse, indeed (it's a living Covenant with His people)!


Off to get an oil change and my tires in my car rotated and other things needed to be done! Enjoy your day!




No. 18     Reply: Re: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Oct 14, 2017 at 9:45 AM     
CAsandie wrote:

Off to get an oil change and my tires in my car rotated and other things needed to be done! Enjoy your day!



You still have a vehicle were as they rotate the tires?

Many vehicles these days you do not rotate the tires with the traditional pattern as we once did.

The front tires on some are a different size from what is on the rear, thus you cannot interchange them from front to rear due to that sizing difference. One of my vehicles is of this design.

Some tires, even though possibly of the same size, are of a tread designed to provide best traction in only one defined rotation direction. Thus they are not be swapped from one side of the vehicle to the other. One of my vehicles exhibits such a tread design. Best traction tires I have ever owned by the way.

Were as the sizes are the same size front and rear but with defined rotation direction, you may swap them from front to rear and vice versa as long as they remain on same side of vehicle as removed from.

I am sure there are many vehicles still out there with same size tires all the way around and were as the traditional rotation pattern can still be followed, but if the tires have been replaced with defined rotation direction tires, it would be unsafe to swap from one side to the other.
No. 19     Reply: Re: Division is not by man   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Oct 14, 2017 at 12:10 PM     
Oh crap this reminds me I forgot to do my oil change on my car and its passed time to get it done. Thks for posting here survivor. If you hadn't of I wouldn't have came back to this thread to see your post to casandie and I would not have remembered my oil change till no telling when. Two days ago I asked my son to remind me to get it later that day after I put up the groceries and apparantely I forgot and he forgot to remind me lol.