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MeetChristians.com / Forums / Unorthodox Doctrinal Discussion

No. 0     Original Topic: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 4, 2017 at 11:57 PM   Viewed 2485 times     
People say God did not create evil because God is not evil even though the bible says he did create evil. I can answer this concern people have just by asking you all one simple little question. If anyone knows the answer to the question below please share your answer.

question: What is it that determines if an act is evil?
No. 1     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 10:11 AM     
Why don't we start at the beginning. You prove were as God created evil. His Word states no such thing.

Evil is not a physical thing you can put in a jar. Evil has no existence of its own. The thought of evil comes about when man opts to reject good.

God did not create evil. Evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.
No. 2     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 10:33 AM     
in another thread casandie already gave the verse. Survivor, what are you calling evil? There is one thing that determines if something is evil and it is the only reason God cannot be evil just becuaes he created evil. What is that one thing? If no one guesses it, I will post the answer

No. 3     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 10:39 AM     
I already did. Evil is the absence of God/good.

I have no idea what you refer to that involved Casandie. My response is to the error you state in the OP. Not to whatever Casandie may have shared. The Bible does not say God created evil.
No. 4     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 10:47 AM     
thats not the answer im looking for so im just gonna go ahead and answer the question. the answer is....intentions of the heart. So some times things that we consider evil are not evil becuase it produces a good outcome which is why God cannot be evil though he created evil. casandie mentioned the bad in the old testament and it says the Lord shall, the Lord, the Lord, well the lord cannot be evil just beucadse he sends bad things our way becuacse as you know tjhe bible also tells us suffering produces good, not bad. God has no bad intentions for what he sends man's way. There is always a purpose which produces good. We can refer to the bible on what all good suffering does for man. Suffering is actually a necessary part of salvation. The intentions behind the act determines if the act is evil or not. God has no bad intentions for man and his actions alwasy produce good which is why things he does we see as evil but in reality is not evil becuase of the intentions behind the act and the good is produces.
No. 5     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 11:03 AM     
God did not create evil. It is that simple.
No. 6     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 11:10 AM     
Isa 45:7 disagrees with you. it says I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.

We cannot call him a liar because we know he don't lie. What we can do is try to understand why a loving God would do that which is what im trying to do...help others get a better understanding of why God created evil and yet is not evil. It's all about intentions of the heart.

The carnal mind sees "evil" in all bad things but God has another view. It has to be done but for good purposes which man does not understand the good in it. What the carnal mind sees as evil produces good in God's view. Even death is good becuase of the end result. God kills people by the thousands every yr by calamities/disasters.
No. 7     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 12:10 PM     
Survivor, TCG is discussing the the thread I made in Theo here on MC. I'd love your contribution as a Brother in Christ to that thread if you have time or are so inclined.


TCG -- God created all things, but does not participate in evil that was brought into the world by the 'father' of the lie (as well as the author of confusion): satan (who we all know you believe is man rather than a fallen angle named Lucifer). Yet, satan is referred to as the evil 'one' and is identified as a being in scripture and the 'one' tempting Eve in the garden in Genesis (not God)...

James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “- God” is tempting me. For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone.

Man is lured away into sin by man's own evil desires or a failure of knowledge of God (God Who does not falsely accuse or perform evil) and it is a snare of satan:

2 Timothy 2:25He must gently reprove those who oppose him, in the hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth. 26Then they will come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, who has taken them captive to his will.



You and I have already held discussion in this area and most certainly do not hold the same beliefs, so further discussion on this to me personally is redundant...and I hold no interest in redundancy or quarrel with you (so not contributing more here whether you throw insult my way on account of my own Christian beliefs or not).

Have a great Wednesday!

Mod in realizing that I failed to answer the question in simplicity: it is not 'what' determines 'evil' but "Who" and that answer is God!

TCG -- Evil is never good and good is never evil. God can turn what is 'bad' into a good circumstance for His Children and does this to include changing a man's heart from bad to good. Man and the earth was good prior to man's disobedience as it states in Genesis. Evil is evil and Good is Good still (only circumstances change).

No. 8     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 1:18 PM     
Scriptures not understood in their real meaning. You are reading only the cover as its said now read the book for better understanding. God created evil. God sends man agaisnt man and there is plenty of proof in the bible of such. we naturally have a bad mind from the day we were created in the womb becuase that the mind God gave us in creation. Man is evil and evil cannot give birth to good. There is alot of scriptures in the bible, tons of them in fact, in the ot proving God sends man against man. We are his tools created for his purpose. People think he can only send us to do what good in our own eyes but thats wrong. We can only do what God sends us to do. Many of the things man does is according to tjhe carnal mind, very evil but in the eyes of God is was good because it produces good in ways man dont comprehend and whether you are the sender or the receiver makes no difference. The reason God cannot be tempted with evil is beucase he is not evil and all he does or sends man to do is for a good purpose even it if sounds bad to man's carnal mind. For example death is good not bad yet we see it as bad especially if the person was murdered but in death there is no more suffering in an everlasting life with christ so that is good. Death really is our salvation. It is only the body that dies not the soul. The end result is good. This is why the bible says it is better to die than to be born in ecc 7:1. Those born got to suffer all througout their lives.
No. 9     Reply: Re: Re: One question   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 3:34 PM     
texascowgirl283 wrote:

Isa 45:7 disagrees with you. it says I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.

We cannot call him a liar because we know he don't lie. What we can do is try to understand why a loving God would do that which is what im trying to do...help others get a better understanding of why God created evil and yet is not evil. It's all about intentions of the heart.

The carnal mind sees "evil" in all bad things but God has another view. It has to be done but for good purposes which man does not understand the good in it. What the carnal mind sees as evil produces good in God's view. Even death is good becuase of the end result. God kills people by the thousands every yr by calamities/disasters.


But you do call God a liar by taking that Scripture out of context as well as many others. That Scripture does not disagree with me in the slightest. It clearly disagrees with you.

The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” Taken in context with the rest of the scripture and the Bible in general, it is unwise to assume that “I create evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence. The Bible clearly depicts that God did not do so.

The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience.

God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him. Taken in context, it is not stating that God created moral "evil".
No. 10     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 4:21 PM     
Maybe we are talking two different concepts of "evil".

I do not see God allowing adversity or such as a calamity to come upon man as "evil". I do not see Biblical support for such.

"Evil" is a deliberate moral wrong. God did not create such. He allows for the existence of such, and the absence of God is what allows such "evil" to be engaged in by man.
No. 11     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 5:21 PM     
I gave you the verse where he created evil. You cant twist it to mean anything you desire whenever it suits you.
No. 12     Reply: Re: Re: One question   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 5:23 PM     
texascowgirl283 wrote:

I gave you the verse where he created evil. You cant twist it to mean anything you desire whenever it suits you.


True, and I did not. But you certainly and clearly twisted it out of context to share something totally different than it shares.

And you are the one always saying the Bible is not correct as written, when it suits your lies.
No. 13     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 5:33 PM     
not everything in it is an error and alot of whats in it that is true is twisted by man. You can alwasy give your version on what it means that he created evil and how it affects and applies to us.
No. 14     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 5:34 PM     
This discussion is done.

It is quite evident you can most never support your position Biblically without taking God's Word out of context to state whatever you desire. You cannot carry on a rational discussion.

Anyone that knows the nature of God, reads His Word, and has a Spiritual relationship with Him, can see that you are most always 90% in error as to what God's Word really shares.
No. 15     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 5, 2017 at 5:55 PM     
IT is only your opinion that I twist scriptures and it is also common that you say things like, "this discussion is over" when asked for your understanding of the verse we were discussing. If you know so much and have all understanding and answers then why are you running away when asked to give your explanation of the verse in question? You do this alot. But i dont want yu to feel pressured to answer so you may go.
No. 16     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 7, 2017 at 12:41 PM     
You know as I was posting in the other thread you created, TCG...

I think maybe it might help to define what 'evil' is...here is Strong's concordance (definitions given in English):

Strong's Concordance
ra: evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
Transliteration: ra
Short Definition: evil
NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin
from the same as roa

Definition
evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity

NASB Translation
adversity (7), calamity (4), disaster (2), evil (94), harm (2), harmful (1), hurt (1), ruin (3), surely (1), trouble (2), unpleasant (1), wickedly (1), wickedness (1).


Yet, we we look to the root words we find adversary (for which devil means)...

Strong's Concordance
ra': adversity
Original Word: רָע
Part of Speech: Adjective; noun masculine; noun feminine
Transliteration: ra'
Phonetic Spelling: (rah)
Short Definition: adversity


God created His adversary 'ra'

Satan is the root of all evil (father of the lie, what does father mean? Author of confusion, what does author mean)? So, let's look at the definition of hassatan (Hebrew spelling from Scripture)...

Satan (Hebrew: שָּׂטָן‎‎ satan, meaning "enemy" or "adversary"; Arabic: شيطان‎‎ shaitan, meaning; "astray", "distant", or sometimes "devil") is a figure appearing in the texts of the Abrahamic religions who brings evil and temptation, and is known as the deceiver who leads humanity astray.


or more appropriately the definition from Scripture itself, 'accuser'

Hebrew Bible. The original Hebrew term satan is a noun from a verb meaning primarily "to obstruct, oppose", as it is found in Numbers 22:22, 1 Samuel 29:4, Psalms 109:6. Ha-Satan is traditionally translated as "the accuser" or "the adversary".


When we look to God, we must understand one thing: His Way is Divine and Righteous. Anyone who 'opposes' or 'accuses' or 'performs' otherwise is 'against' His Truth given to us then commits evil or sins.

Evil is a sin. It misses God's mark, God's Plans, God's Will. God can not sin. He created all things, but can never be wrong, sin or perform evil.

(not sure if this helps, but blessings wished).


No. 17     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 7, 2017 at 9:35 PM     
Casandie,this may sound strange to you but did you ever think that Everyone goes agiasnt God's will becucase that was God's will for mankind since before he ever even created man? And know that it was not satan who planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of eden where adam and eve could see it.

The lamb of God was slain from the foundation of world, not eve's sin. God provided a way for adam and eve's salvaton before he ever created them because he knew they would sin becuase man sinning was his will from the start. The slaying of the lamb was God's will before he ever created man, not after eve sinned, which means he purposly created men to fall into sin and planned for them a savior before they were even created to sin.

And yes evil has many shades. But that has nothing to do with wether or not God created it. Its all about the intention behind the reason that determines if creating evil is a sin or not. People say God didnt create evil becuase he is not evil. But they dont look at the intention and reason behind why he created evil when we know the bible says he created it.
No. 18     Reply: Re: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 8, 2017 at 2:08 AM     
texascowgirl283 wrote: Casandie,this may sound strange to you but did you ever think that Everyone goes agiasnt God's will becucase that was God's will for mankind since before he ever even created man?


I have heard you say this before, but no I would not think this way as God stated His Plan to us in Scriptures.

God does 'not' tempt us, nor does He allow us more temptation than we can handle. Likewise, Christians are capable of obedience.

1 Cor 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, He will also provide an escape, so that you can stand up under it.

Sin occurs when there is an 'absence' of the Lord in one's life. The more obedient we are, the closer the Lord is with us.

John 15:6 If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to My Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples.

And know that it was not satan who planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of eden where adam and eve could see it.


The phrase in Hebrew: טוֹב וָרָע, tov wa-ra is the word used for good and evil. Prior to satan, there was no temptation for the man or woman.

The lamb of God was slain from the foundation of world, not eve's sin.


Not sure what you are trying to suggest here? Christ laid the foundation of the earth according to scripture:

Hebrew 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.

God provided a way for adam and eve's salvaton before he ever created them because he knew they would sin becuase man sinning was his will from the start. The slaying of the lamb was God's will before he ever created man, not after eve sinned, which means he purposly created men to fall into sin and planned for them a savior before they were even created to sin.


Adam was good as God stated. He had no temptation to disobey God prior to satan.

And yes evil has many shades. But that has nothing to do with wether or not God created it. Its all about the intention behind the reason that determines if creating evil is a sin or not. People say God didnt create evil becuase he is not evil. But they dont look at the intention and reason behind why he created evil when we know the bible says he created it.


Evil is evil. I don't believe it is weighed, except for those sins listed in scripture that lead to death. I never stated God did not create evil. I stated He can not perform evil nor does He plan evil. He created satan who is the father of the lie and author of confusion (satan is the opposer of all that is good).

His Plans are always good and Perfect. His Plans have not changed (regardless of the short time we currently see). The earth will be restored under Christ's reign, just as Heaven.

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband…

Life is a blink of an eye...the time comes soon!

No. 19     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 8, 2017 at 7:02 AM     
OUr going against God was Gods will from before he ever created man which is why he planned a savior for us to come and be crucified before the foundation of the world which is before he ever made humans and is also why God put that tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden with adam and eve. You look at things with a carnal mind which is why you are blind to the truth. The carnal mind does not understand the spiritual things of God.

So yes its true God created evil but he did it for a good purpose which is why his creating evil is not a sin. All the suffering we do is required for salvation even if you dont want to believe it. Just be a good soldier until the end has came and only God the father knows when that will be.

People dont understand why he created evil. Creating evil does not make him evil beucase of his reason/intention for doing so. Learning good and EVIL is a requirement for our salvation.

But the good news is a lost world is only lost for a period of time and the end result is salvation. And until we reach the end result, just accept what God created and be a good soldier in christ suffering.

Every movie has a producer and a director and Im telling ya its like us watching movies on tv at home and we are holding the remote control to the tv except with God and his well planned will for his creation, God is the producer and director of this movie that we are all in and God's got the remote. Just be a good soldier in christ until the movie is over.
No. 20     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 8, 2017 at 10:27 AM     
TCG -- You have already figured out I believe in predestination, so we can use scripture to prove that God knows all, even our very births beforehand, but he is not slow to end evil -- just patient and loving with men...

So you believe Christians do not know this:

Romans 9:22 What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction? 23What if He did this to make the riches of His glory known to the vessels of His mercy, whom He prepared in advance for glory

He teaches us love though and allows for repentance and has shown us the way to life. These are the words of Christ, although He wants no one to perish:

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

..................

The time is short and our suffering shorter than we realize upon this earth and books versus trees are before us today (do you see the parallel between the tree of life/tree of good and evil and then the book of life and the book of 'judgement' today?

God's plans have not changed and He will be getting as many a Pastor might state: Old Testament on us very soon...

To man this all seems long, but we haven't 'eternity' 'yet.' Can you imagine an eternal time clock. We are not in a movie, although there are trials and drama. The evil we have today is of our own devise and the devise of satan...it will pass.

-------------------------------------


I understand your beliefs do not fit what I have written above. Not seeing a question, I will move on. Maybe someone else has something greater than myself to contribute (since I'd only be repeating myself and likely am here).

Thanks! Have a lovely weekend.

No. 21     Reply: Re: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 8, 2017 at 1:44 PM     
TCG -- You have already figured out I believe in predestination, so we can use scripture to prove that God knows all, even our very births beforehand, but he is not slow to end evil -- just patient and loving with men...

1. Patient and loving wtih men to do what casandie. Man cannot change himself and the bible is clear on that. You stated he is not slow to end evil...just patient and loving with men....by that comment are you saying he waiting on us to do something and if so.. what would that be? we are what God made us and only God can change us.

2. What do you believe about predestination? There is a reason that God knows all and its because the creation and life of men was well planned by God before he created even the foundation.

Romans 9:22 What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction? 23What if He did this to make the riches of His glory known to the vessels of His mercy, whom He prepared in advance for glory

Good scripture. He prepared for all men to be vessels of his wrath prepared for destruction suffering all the way until eventually physically dying and be raised from that death like Jesus was and have salvation.

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Eternal punishment is no where to be found in a bible. The bible has errors in it. A good and loving God would never punish his predestined abopted children forever. You are hung up on a translation error that man has put in the bible. As far as the rest of the verse all men are in that same boat. I have heard many of christians say the hungry homosexuals should not be served food in restaurants. They should all be turned away, Well when man hates and deny's another man, he hates and denied christ first.

..................

The time is short and our suffering shorter than we realize upon this earth and books versus trees are before us today (do you see the parallel between the tree of life/tree of good and evil and then the book of life and the book of 'judgement' today?

What I see is we must know both good and evil to be like them (them being God, the father and his son) in order to have salvation. Thats why God put adam and eve in the garden where God put the tree of knowledge of both good and evil.

God's plans have not changed

NO God's plans have definately not changed. God dont change eihter and has never been evil to do such things to man as told by christians and other religious groups. Torture in a literal fire forever and ever is an evil thing to say about God. This fire is the fire from heaven. its a spiritual fire known as God's power to chastise and save mankind and is not a literal fire that is claimed that God will use to forever torture people in the afterlife.

To man this all seems long, but we haven't 'eternity' 'yet.' Can you imagine an eternal time clock. We are not in a movie, although there are trials and drama. The evil we have today is of our own devise and the devise of satan...it will pass.

Its exactly like a movie played out tit for tat because what it is is God will from start to finish is being fulfilled until completed and there is nothing in God's will about a bad ending for man but the church goers tell of a bad ending for most of humanity which is not true. The ending is great, its salvation for all men. Nothing God does will ever have a bad outcome for man.

-------------------------------------


I understand your beliefs do not fit what I have written above. Not seeing a question, I will move on.

fair enough. enjoy the rest of your day.

No. 22     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 9, 2017 at 2:47 AM     
TCG -- coming back just to answer your questions after making a few critics on your theology...

1. If you believe scriptures have errors...then which shall you believe? The Bible is not a book of scriptures for us to pick and choose according to our own decisions or beliefs, but is an accounting of God's decisions and His Truth (it is for us to understand and 'do' His Will. Eternal penalties for continuing in sin (no repentance) is 'through out' the Bible and not just an understanding by 'Churches,' but those who do not attend Church alike. Even atheists understand the Bible (they just chose not to believe the world was created, since there are so many religions and they do not themselves physically see God (has any man)? They however have no answer for how the elements existed in the first place for the big bang theory if they were not created.

2. So you agree God doesn't change, but will not destroy all evil to include those practicing it ... and what occurred of Sodom and Gomorrah? Do you find this world better? Are those in it today better?

2 Peter (the entire chapter answers your questions posed):

The Day of the Lord Will Come

1This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, 3knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. 4They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. 7But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

8But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodiesb will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

11Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, 12waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! 13But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Final Words

14Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. 15And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.



On the things I've hilighted:

You might say this fire that destroys to be only purification and rebirth, but then as hilighted the comparison is that of the Great flood. Were those in the world beyond Noah and his family spared? No. So this is the comparison with the fire given (the destruction of the earth by water).

We are to grow in Christ and not in sin (past sins forgiven) if we are to live, otherwise we will be destroyed. Yes, the Lord is required in the transition (we must be born again). Sin is not 'necessary' to live and although all will fall short, not all will be found with sins that lead to death *which are given in scriptures* (these names are written in the Book of Life). Most are dead today (and they bury the dead). It is not on the dead that we can declare such wickedness of all men.

We are living in Sodom and Gomorrah if you ask me and it is getting worse. The world will be destroyed.

Still leaving this discussion (I just wanted to give this discussion my best effort in hoping that you might see a need to reconcile 'all' scriptures to include the ones you chose to believe are in error for some reason and that makes you angry at Churches and Christian Doctrine of the destruction of evil and those who perform sins that lead to death). I am not a brimstone and fiery hell person myself (I convey God's love myself and I do not care if one believes by literal or a non-literal fire), but the God of the OT is the God of the NT and the words of the Prophets the same: Few will enter the Kingdom of God.

Isaiah 24:5 The earth is polluted by its people.
They haven’t obeyed the laws of the Lord.
They haven’t done what he told them to do.
They’ve broken the covenant that will last forever.
6 So the Lord will send a curse on the earth.
Its people will pay for what they’ve done.
They will be burned up.
Very few of them will be left.



God Bless.
No. 23     Reply: Re: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 9, 2017 at 6:45 AM     
1. If you believe scriptures have errors...then which shall you believe?

You learn through study and through the copywrited versions when its written that things were changed for better clarity. and by research, you can see those changes were incorrect. God's word is correct, the copywrited versions of God's word is full of errors.

The Bible is not a book of scriptures for us to pick and choose according to our own decisions or beliefs,

You are right we cant pick and choose and I don't.

but is an accounting of God's decisions and His Truth (it is for us to understand and 'do' His Will.

Do you have the original writings or just the copywrited versions that have been changed for better clarity with translation errors, words added and words omitted. You can't take a changed version and call it God's word. Through alot of study, you can see whats God's word and what has been changed in the copywrited versions. You know its funny that christians can call God's word a lie in every bible version out there except the version they use. Well God didnt lie to anyone but the fact there changes from one bible version to another version should be proof to anyone, the bible has been changed.

Eternal penalties for continuing in sin (no repentance) is 'through out' the Bible and not just an understanding by 'Churches,' but those who do not attend Church alike.

The problem here is that the chruches do not teach this can only happen when God changes man. They are too busy teaching when man changes himself which will not happen. man cannot change himself. Christiantiy talks, you better, you better, and you better or hellfire awaits you. we determine our own fate. Thats nowehre to be found in a bible. The truth is only God can make a man do anything and there is no literal fire God will forever torture a soul with. The lies within the local churches are unending. They only tell false horror stories of what God is gonna do to most of humanity. They do that becuase they have no trust in Christ to change and save man. Man must do it himself or hellfire awaits him. Don't you see, their preachers trust in christ is non existant. And the bible was only meant for the disciples to undertand, it had not been given to the listeners to understand it says so right in the bible but many refuse to beleive it. So who it that is picking and choosing verses..christians perhaps. Tons of scriptures they ignore.

2. So you agree God doesn't change, but will not destroy all evil to include those practicing it

The way sin will be no more is when he has put all sinners under his feet...by physical death.

2that you being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

Jesus was crucified to save the Lost and Ungodly. no man can save himself. only Jesus can save a man. Do you trust him? or do you prefer to just talk about how incapable of saving man he is.? Destruction of the body is not destruction of a man's soul.

You might say this fire that destroys to be only purification and rebirth,

It is written in plain english that the fire SAVES MAN. Therefore it is impossible to be a literal fire. Besides when you die a physical death, you no longer have a psysical body to set on literal fire. you only have an invisible soul and a real literal fire can only burn physical things.

We are to grow in Christ and not in sin (past sins forgiven) if we are to live, otherwise we will be destroyed.

we are forgiven of sins past present and future when christ was crucified. We are to follow christ which is to suffer, die and be resurrected incorruptible. When you are resurrected, you are reborn

Ps the earth is polluted by its people but not without it being God's will first. People disregard the fact that what God willed for this earth and our lives is exactly what is. But its only temporary.
No. 24     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 9, 2017 at 11:21 AM     
Do you have the original writings or just the copywrited versions


Do you know in Hebrew it is read from right to left (not left to right). I actually do have an interlinear Vulgate and Septuagint as part of my collection. I got these in which to compare versions of the Bible as a teenager (it was vital to me to see with my own eyes what are called "variants" in the Bible and I needed these Interlinear Bibles to guide me. There are not many variants published but after going through these, I then set out to my own (I found some, but moreso how 'amazing' the Bible is).

The interlinears I own have English, but also a key to the original languages...it was even vital to me that i use the 'key' -- which took a great deal more time. As a teenager, this is where my study habits came from (the Lord's Word and the Lord Himself, I believe as it was meant to be).

As a young adult -- I used 'only' these interlinear Bibles and KJV only. After time went (years upon year of comparison that went on into my 30's and sometimes even today), the fact remains that one can say things that mean the same thing, but in different ways (it does not change the 'context' of what is said [the meaning]).

That said there are some parts of the NIV that changes meaning which startles me. As well there are a couple more Bibles that do, I believe (the message Bible for example).

On the rest that you have written: fire just like water can save or destroy (purify or destroy)....

We must reconcile when 'destruction' or 'cleansing' is taking place. Was Sodom and Gomorrah not destroyed by fire? Was the whole earth not destroyed by water in the days of Noah?

It's all about obedience (that which can destroy or save us as one is baptized by water and fire as well).


As for the Lord's sacrifice, we are told to not continue sinning and to do good works (trees that do not bear good fruit will be cut down ... God's adversaries will be avenged, ect. [we see it throughout the OT and the NT alike).

The Full Assurance of Faith

Hebrews 10:19Therefore, brothers,c since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

26For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins


Have a great Sunday, TCG!

No. 25     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 9, 2017 at 11:40 AM     
lots of things catch fire in this world. That has zero, to do with the soul of man in the AFTERLIFE which is where you are accusing God of setting men on a literal fire. However, those that die by fire in this life only lose their body. Their soul is unharmed. Believe the bible when it tells you the fire saves man and its takling about the after death judgment. A real fire does not save man, God's SPIRITUAL FIRE [his power] does. Also in the afterlife, there is not physical body for a physical fire to burn. You are all messed up in your thinking becuae you tell how God supposedly sets men on fire in the afterlife and not even one example of this being done IN THE AFTERLIFE. All you got is examples from the physical realm. now give me an example of it being done...a literal fire....in the afterlife.

PLEASE TAKE NOTE Yes Casandie, a literal fire and water both can destroy the physical body in this life but neither one of them can destroy or even harm a man's SOUL neither in this life nor in the afterlife. This info should be passed around to all the worldly churches.

As far as not sinning in this life...go ahead and give it a try. you will fail 100 percent.
No. 26     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 9, 2017 at 6:54 PM     
TCG -- what makes you think I am speaking of the 'afterlife?' The afterlife will have no death. I am speaking of before the New Earth here...Do you believe this has occurred yet?

Revelation 20:11-15

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


As well, a literal or non-literal fire is not the point at all, but rather 'destruction,' which the Lord states He will do throughout the Bible.



As far as focusing on what is not achievable in life -- focus on Christ. No one is 100% bad or good, but 'obedience' is the desired goal. There are sins that lead to death and sins that do not that man are responsible for ...

1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he should ask God, who will give life to those who commit this kind of sin. There is a sin that leads to death; I am not saying he should ask regarding that sin. 17All unrighteousness is sin, yet there is sin that does not lead to death. 18We know that anyone born of God does not keep on sinning; the One who was born of God protects him, and the evil one cannot touch him. 19We know that we are of God, and that the whole world is under the power of the evil one. 20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ.


1 John 3:10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil can be distinguished: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.


So we see error in people. That ought not to be one's focus -- no more than a focus on suffering, anger, resentment, etc. can bring joy.


As far as fire saving people, are you speaking of John the Baptist and what he stated of baptism with fire. We see this in Acts as well during the Pentecost (which has past):

Matthew 3:7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. 9And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. 10Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

11“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”


Acts 2:2-3 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like ga mighty rushing wind, and hit filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested1 on each one of them.


Fire is used as a term to explain 'all consuming' as in baptism or 'complete destruction' as in death. I too believe fire is likely symbolic, although you keep telling me I believe or teach otherwise (I simply do not know for certain as it has not occurred yet).

The fire spoken of for destruction is the Lake of fire/Valley of Gehenna was where children were sacrificed and burned along side trash (the children were sacrifices for foreign gods). It is stated the worm shall not die (meaning it is eternal).

Isaiah 66:24 ►
And they shall go forth, and look on the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring to all flesh.

Abhorring to all flesh is not the after life. It is Judgement Day.

I appreciate the discussion, but not really finding many questions, so have offered this to you in peace as for the questions seen and will be leaving the discussion (I am certain others here can answer better than I can).

Have a great evening!

mod. typos (sorry if more exist).
No. 27     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 10, 2017 at 8:06 AM     
Casandie you post scripture and you apply carnal thinking to them which is why your understanding is twisted. Remember the carnal mind does not understand the spiritual things of God. All humans have a carnal mind. However I dont use my mind carnally, i use it to see the spiritual meaning to scriptures since scriptures are not as written to sound. There is an extreme amount of figurative language and metaphors and such in the bible. You have to find the spiritual meaning, not the carnal one. And christianity does ideed teach one of two things about what happens to man when they physically die. THose two things are:

1. Man is set on literal fire being tortured forever by the LOrd....what most christians falsely teach
2. Man will not have life after death..the will simply cease to exist....Elijas constant teaching when he was here in the site.

no scripture in the entire bible teaches either one of those things unless you use carnal thinking instead of the spiritual meaning that is meant. The flesh profits nothing casandie, human effort accomplishes nothing.

We are all going to die a physical death. By what means we die is unimportant completely. We all have that same fate..physical death. Our disagreements is what happens after physcial death and it neither one of the two things I posted above. Before our physical death we are all in tjhe same boat...humans who cannot follow christ, we cannot stop sinning and we cannot Godly repent. all we can do is continue as we are until physical death finally comes and puts an end to who we are. There is nothing different going to happen to any human in either this life or in the afterlife. Before death and after death, we all got the same fate and it is a fate we do not decide by how we live our lives. Fate of mankind was decided by God before he ever even created man. He willed everyting before the foundation of the world. his "will" is not going to change for man based on what man does or doesn't do in this life. Jesus is simply teaching us who his father is and what his fathers will for man is. Jesus and his father both know man cannot fulfill God's will. Only Jesus can and Jesus is fulfilling his fathers will for mankind tit for tat.

So no matter what man does, he cannot change God's willed fate for mankind neither before death or after death.

God's will for mankind is salvation and thats exactly what will be and nothing we do or dont do can change it.

No. 28     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 10, 2017 at 10:38 AM     
The same could be said of you by Christians (about twisting and carnal thinking)...I am not big on only saying things like that, because it offers nothing to the discussion ... (except possibly anger sometimes).

...so I provide the Scriptures themselves (that is why I offer them here). Scriptures to me are clear...but moving on...

I hope you are able to get your brake light problem on your car fixed and I'm sorry to hear that happened.

God Bless!



No. 29     Reply: Re: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 10, 2017 at 10:52 AM     
The same could be said of you by Christians (about twisting and carnal thinking)...

It not only could be said about me but is said about me constantly.

You keep saying you provide scriptures, well yes casandie you do and anyone can do that but understanding them in correct context is another story and where the false interpretations arise.

And I dont mean to offend you about the carnal mind. We all have a carnal mind and think with it and it is most deceitful above all else. The scriptures cannot be understood with carnal reasoning. We have to get the spiritual meaning thats intended not the carnal one.

Carnal reasoning only works for us in the world we live in today but has no place in God's word. God does not think like the carnal minded humans.

No. 30     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 10, 2017 at 1:50 PM     
Thanks for clarifying. I have some questions for you now, but will not respond back (if all is thought that these are carnal ramblings, because it means it is not considered by you then):

1. What do you do to worship God?

2. Do you blame the Lord when a pedophile kidnaps, rapes and murders a baby?

3. Do you think those pedophiles who kidnap a baby, rape it and then murder it deserve to live? (you stated in my thread in GD that Carter deserved to be punished). Before answering this question though (as I know your answer/death and incorruptible), please consider this:

4. How does a metaphoric fire and rebirth teach us anything?

The recidivism rate for pedophiles and more importantly the word of God proves a leopard cannot change its spots. Yet the leopard the Lord created does not hold the same brain as does man (albeit animals hold intelligence and character that cause you and I both to love them). If it did, then maybe we would see leopards dying it's fur a different color with berry compounds as early makeup was made from and could be plausible to do without hands (although a bit of a stretch, lol).

Man is Divinely created with intelligence and self determination much more so than even the beasts of the field though (ppl change their appearances. we even see men becoming women today in the physical form, not just mentally as effeminate men have done in times before).

We need to be held accountable, TCG ... not with a metaphoric 'unpainful' fire. The brain works on its own if we are not dead (even as we sleep the brain works -- the Lord has created 'intelligent beings' with self determination in man). It's easy enough to say, but we die and the Lord recreates our minds, but...

God could have done that already. Why hasn't he in a 'physical' way done so already? What would be to gain then? (robotic creatures ... so even man can create. Man today has even created artificial intelligence to respond to emotions). It's of no 'real' worth though (there is no 'real' love that will ever exist in artificial intelligence).

God changes us through His Spirit today, albeit not as Perfect as He is...we become One with Him when He becomes our focus and cannot fathom most sin in this world (could you even fathom what pedophiles do)? I don't think you could. I can't. Ask yourself why. I again tell you that I like you, because I do see good in you. I do not like the bad words you have said to me. I only like good. How is this? I am so insignificant in this world (nobody really), but how is it that I research to ensure a food item might be good for us and will discontinue it if I question it (coffee) and how is it that I only like good (and I am getting more and more to where I understand my failings and I am learning what is 'good' today)?

No, I am not good, but the Lord created the earth, the beasts and then man and said it was 'very' good.

Genesis 1:31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

I hope you might consider deeply these things. God. Bless.



No. 33     Reply: Re: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 10, 2017 at 3:07 PM     
1. What do you do to worship God?

Pray but not by constantly asking him for something nor by repeated prayer. Sometimes it just to acknowledge him and thank him and i dont feel i need a church setting to do that. I can do it right from my own home. I like the one on one instead of group prayer as in the churches do. Prayer doesn't alwasy men asking for something we want.

2. Do you blame the Lord when a pedophile kidnaps, rapes and murders a baby?

I do because God sends man agianst man all the time. We are his tools he uses to do whatever it is he sends us to do. I know christians don't see it that way but i do. God has a way of putting a cause out there for causing man to do all he does. The will of God has our lives planned fromn start to finish and Jesus is fulling that will tit for tat which is why God doesn't stop all these horrible things man does. But since we have a mind of our own, when we are about to do something that is not in his will, we are stopped.

3. Do you think those pedophiles who kidnap a baby, rape it and then murder it deserve to live? (you stated in my thread in GD that Carter deserved to be punished).

No I dont but I'm not God. God did not take cain;s life after he killed his brother and didnt want anyone else to come after cain either. He did punish him though with poor crops.

4. How does a metaphoric fire and rebirth teach us anything?

depends on which life you are talking about. before death or after death. Since i dont know which one your asking aobut, I'll just answer for both. First the SPIRITUAL fire from heaven is God's power over man. It is used in punishment in this life while in the body sinning and salvation after physical body is dead both. Before death, we suffer through all sorts of terrible tragedies throughout life and suffer alot. The bible tells us many good things that suffering does for man. You can read about them in the bible. Now after death, we are done learning. The rebirth is being resurrected by the Lord sinfree or incorruptible as is said in the bible.

The recidivism rate for pedophiles and more importantly the word of God proves a leopard cannot change its spots. Yet the leopard the Lord created does not hold the same brain as does man (albeit animals hold intelligence and character that cause you and I both to love them). If it did, then maybe we would see leopards dying it's fur a different color with berry compounds as early makeup was made from and could be plausible to do without hands (although a bit of a stretch, lol).

lol first not all people love animals, there are many who can't stand them. Anyway, the change i speak of is not changing our bodies and hair color and other such things, its a spiritual change. Everytime i talk about change im talking about a complete spiritual change not physical changes.

Man is Divinely created with intelligence and self determination much more so than even the beasts of the field though (ppl change their appearances. we even see men becoming women today in the physical form, not just mentally as effeminate men have done in times before).

We were created with a brain that could learn otherwise God couldn't teach us anything. We will be whatever God willed for each of us to do and to be before he ever created us. OUr lives from start to finish were planned out for each of us before he even created us. Personally i think he could have done better in his plans for me and my life but ya know i cant argue or question God.

We need to be held accountable, TCG ... not with a metaphoric 'unpainful' fire. The brain works on its own if we are not dead (even as we sleep the brain works -- the Lord has created 'intelligent beings' with self determination in man). It's easy enough to say, but we die and the Lord recreates our minds, but...

We are accountable becuase our mind are accustomed to doing evil but God is responsible for that beucase he created us this way on purpose for his own reasons. Your brain does not function without God. You are not why your brain is working. God can turn it off any second. We are God's tools he uses and send us whereever to do whatever he wants at all times. Personally i think that sucks but I am no one to question God as he said in the bible. Who are you to question God when asked why did you make me this way. just accept it casandie since we cannot argue with God nor change anything.

God could have done that already. Why hasn't he in a 'physical' way done so already?

There are lots of lessons he wants us to learn in order to become like him which is why He didnt create us like himself in the first place [spiritually knowlegeable] We are learning whatever he wants us to learn through experience.

What would be to gain then? (robotic creatures ... so even man can create. Man today has even created artificial intelligence to respond to emotions). It's of no 'real' worth though (there is no 'real' love that will ever exist in artificial intelligence).

Man didnt create anything. Be careful you dont give man credit when all credit belongs to God. God created all things and man just figured out how to utilize those things for good but not without God allowing it. No man knows nothing without God allowing them the knowledge to utilize whatever they are utilizing that God made possible.

No, I am not good, but the Lord created the earth, the beasts and then man and said it was 'very' good.

Great question and the answer is as i said before numerous times, We are not good they way you think its meant in fact we are accustomed to doing evil. What God meant by good we are good for the purpose he created us for. We were meant to fall into sin even if you dont beleive it and thats why we are sinners and its also why he put that tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden in the first place. He created man with hearts that would fall into sin and then put that darn tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden with adam and eve.




No. 34     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 10, 2017 at 7:26 PM     
TCG -- lol, Of course the animal example I gave was a stretch (but I was trying to offer a physical example) of 'change' that is possible in man as well as the intelligent design of man. Man is always seeking 'change' (albeit not always in the best ways) and 'inventions.'

Man is trying to heal ourselves, seek peace (or war in some cases)...and the Lord is not telling one to dye their hair blue or mark up our bodies (it's an invention of man)....

man just figured out how to utilize those things for good but not without God allowing it.


Here, you admit that man is utilizing what God gives us (for which I agree).

Yet, man utilizes what God gave him/her for bad as well...this is not of the Spirit. The Spirit does not sin, make error or perform evil.

I do because God sends man agianst man all the time. We are his tools he uses to do whatever it is he sends us to do.


What did the kidnapped, raped and murdered baby do? Why do you think God would prompt hurt against a loved baby, yet not block the murderous pedophile from His Kingdom? What is taught from such evil that can't be taught without taking the baby's life? Do you suggest a limitation here on ways of teaching another? God is Almighty isn't He?

TCG -- As we know in God's design, man is lost without God and if God 'recreates' a man without united agreement from the man he created, then the man is no longer that which was created (but a new one ... in the 'physical' form).

God recreates us 'now' in the 'spirit' ...

you did not answer, why do I only like what is good? Why do you repay the kindness of a neighbor and 'care' to do so? Why do some love animals and some do not? Why are you against the use of mind altering drugs (as I am)?

It is easiest to say that 'yes' the Lord has set our paths this way...but why the 'unfairness' seen in this world then? Clearly God is not a respecter of persons and a "Just" Lord. Likewise, your theory appears to be missing something.

We know from our changes and Scriptures reveal that we are 'changed' today (the here and now).

As far as Cain, there was much more punishment and Cain lived out his life as God allows to all on this planet, but Scripture is clear that Cain 'did' loose his life via the murder of his brother and will not inherit the Kingdom...

This life the Lord gives us is a blink of an eye!

1 John 3:11 This is the message you have heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he slay him? Because his own deeds were evil, while those of his brother were righteous. 13So do not be surprised, brothers, if the world hates you.

Revelation 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous1 will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,2 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy,1 drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


You recognize there are two deaths (in the first the dead 'themselves' bury the dead as Christ has stated). The second death is of no return:

Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


The first death is only the flesh...the second fully/no return.

https://www.gotquestions.org/second-death.html

Revelation 21:8 explains the second death in the most detail: “The cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars – their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Three other places in Revelation also mention the second death. The first is Revelation 2:11: “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.” In this verse, Jesus promises that believers (“overcomers”; see 1 John 5:4) will not experience the lake of fire. The second death is exclusively for those who have rejected Christ. It is not a place believers in Christ should fear.

Revelation 20:6 speaks of the second death in relation to a future period called the Millennium: “Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.” This verse notes three important facts. First, those who die for their faith in Jesus during the Tribulation will later be resurrected to enter the Millennium and live with Him. Second, these martyrs will escape the lake of fire or second death. Third, they will reign with Christ.

The second death is also mentioned in Revelation 20:14-15: “Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” At the end of time, even death and the grave (Hades) will be thrown into the lake of fire. In addition, every person not included in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire. This condition will be final; the destination is permanent.


So you agree that 'good' is used with different meanings in Scripture and so is fire. So while the fire might not be literal in Revelation (whether literal or not is not what is important in reading this passage), the fact that one is not included in the book of life is permanent death is the main point made.

No. 35     Reply: Re: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 10, 2017 at 9:28 PM     
Man is trying to heal ourselves, seek peace

Without God granting them peace or healing, man can't heal or have peace just by seeking it. IT has to be granted by a higher source...God. This is no different then whether or not a crime can take place. Regardless of what man wants, God has to grant it first or else man cant do it. God however, grants lots of crimes as we see them take place daily, yet at the same time we all see crimes that are stopped. If God says no then its no, But if God says yes than its yes. But no matter what the answer is there is alwasy a good purpose behind it because everything God does is for good purpose. Everything no matter if we see it as evil or good, that God sends man to do is not evil in God's eyes becuase it alwasy for a good purpose and ends with a good outcome.

Yet, man utilizes what God gave him/her for bad as well...this is not of the Spirit. The Spirit does not sin, make error or perform evil.

What God does with man whether he sends man to do something bad or something good does not make him a sinner. You know why? Again All God sends to to what, to who and where is for a good purpose. Good intentions results in a good outcome even if that includes murdering someone. I think the angels even rejoice when someone dies. I know the bible says its better to die than to be born and I completley agree with that verse.

What did the kidnapped, raped and murdered baby do?

its death could have been for many different reasons casandie. Only God knows why he lets those kind of things happen. But he does have a reason for all he sends to do what. Casandie, I try to look at the brighter side of things such as my knowing the baby is not a body, its a soul. Man cannot hurt the soul of anyone. Man can only hurt the body. That baby is fine. Its only those that loved the baby that are suffering the loss.

Why do you think God would prompt hurt against a loved baby, yet not block the murderous pedophile from His Kingdom?

Because God, based on his time frame, is gonna change the heart and mind of that murderer. Remember how bad saul was and then he became paul? But in the mean time till that time comes, that murderer will be suffering in prision for crime committed. God has no bad intentions for anyone. All men will suffer doesnt matter how old they are or when God takes them home. when he takes tjhem home is on his time schedule as well. Everything that is is becuase of God.

What is taught from such evil that can't be taught without taking the baby's life?

If the criminal was to ask God why did you make me this way, God would reply with, "who are you to question God.... But only God knows the why to your question casandie. Maybe it was to suffer the mom and dad? He does make all men suffer and tells us in the bible the good things suffering brings about in man.

Do you suggest a limitation here on ways of teaching another? God is Almighty isn't He?

man will suffer in whatever way God has planned for him. Its sad casandie but we cannot do anything about things like that. Try to find some peace in knowing the baby isn't dead, the baby is home with the Lord. The body that was buried is not the soul of the baby, it was just the shell. It is only us who suffer the loss of the baby but the baby is fine.

When my mother died, I was devastated because I was gonna miss her terribly but at the same time, just knowing that she is not her body, she is a soul and her soul is still alive at home with the Lord never suffering anymore that bit of knowledge really helped me get through her physical death.

God recreates us 'now' in the 'spirit'

He created us in our mothers womb to be just who we are. Casandie we are gonna have the same heart/mind we do right now when we physically die. no one has ever died sinfree except for Jesus and thats only becuase his father wouldn't let him sin.

you did not answer, why do I only like what is good?

No human likes only what is good. They all are accustomed to doing evil.

Why do you repay the kindness of a neighbor and 'care' to do so? Why do some love animals and some do not? Why are you against the use of mind altering drugs (as I am)?

Becuase God created each of us to be who we are. differdnt plans for each of us in our life on earth. Not everyone is agaisnt mind altering drugs, not everyone is nice and not everyone loves animals.

It is easiest to say that 'yes' the Lord has set our paths this way...but why the 'unfairness' seen in this world then? Clearly God is not a respecter of persons and a "Just" Lord. Likewise, your theory appears to be missing something.

God does not pick and choose who suffers since he suffers everyone. suffering is a necessary part of salvation. The lord is just. Each family may suffer different things then the next one but all are suffering all throughout their life on earth. All i know is the bible says vengence is his, he will repay. What ways does he get his vengeance well we could just read the ot.

We know from our changes and Scriptures reveal that we are 'changed' today

In the literal sense, how? we still sin, we are still accustomed to doing evil, we still hate, how have we been changed. Our heart and mind change is coming in the future.

As far as Cain, there was much more punishment and Cain lived out his life as God allows to all on this planet, but Scripture is clear that Cain 'did' loose his life via the murder of his brother and will not inherit the Kingdom...

I mean God did not kill him that day nor did God tell him anyhthing about what would be for him after death. But he will be alive and well with the Lord. There is so much in the bible proving it.

You recognize there are two deaths (in the first the dead 'themselves' bury the dead as Christ has stated). The second death is of no return:

Casandie i almost laughed myself senseless with your understanding on the verse. Thats not what it means at all. Let the dead bury the dead is talking about letting the spiritually dead bury the physically dead. If you are gonna pick up the cross and follow him, you gotta put God first. You got no time to bury dead family members. You either love the world or you love the LOrd. There is the spiritually dead but still physically alive and then there is the literally dead that need to be buried in their grave. As i told you before only the body dies, the soul is unharmed.

You have written such a long post i am gonna have to finish reading and answering the rest another time.










No. 36     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 10, 2017 at 10:08 PM     
TCG -- You are laughing while misinterpreting what I say (yes, it is the spiritually dead that bury the dead...I did not state otherwise...there is a 'physical' death on this earth that all will face. The Spiritually dead are already dead is the point. Not all will face the 2nd death that is permanent.

I haven't read everything you wrote (jumped to the bottom and will have to read it another time).

As far as length -- you are responding to every sentence.

With the misinterpretations of what I say -- I am ending here. You are free to respond, but I have a busy couple of days coming up and will not have time for response.

It is wrong to suggest that God sends a pedophile to kidnap, rape and kill any baby. Any 'good' that God desires can come from good. Not all who suffer turn to God. To be sure, many turn away from God and more will 'if' they were to believe that God was behind the bad in this world as you are suggesting. That is why I vehemently oppose your doctrine, TCG.


Bottom line: satan and demons are real and man will be held responsible for the evil he/she performs. God does not perform evil. Yes, I know you disagree. I have tried here and have to move on remaining in our agreement to disagree.


Have a great week!
No. 37     Reply: Re: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 10, 2017 at 10:42 PM     
The Spiritually dead are already dead is the point.

Casandie I understood your point and is why i was laughing. You are mistaken though. the spiritually dead is referring to the LIVING carnal minded humans because you see the carnal mind, which all living humans have, cannot understand the spiritual things of God. You are not correctly understanding the let the dead bury the dead scripture. by the way, I was not laughing to make fun of you, i was laughing becuase your comment took me by surprise. So i apologize to you if you were offended.

As to your next comment which i didnt quote, there is a fine line between what is good and what isn't because everything bad produces something good. God wouldn't have it any other way. Even if we dont see what good comes from it, God does. So i wish you wasnt so angry about what I stated in my ohter post. It really seems to bother you and im sorry for that but There really is a fine line between good and what we call evil.









No. 38     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 10, 2017 at 11:26 PM     
TCG -- You are still not understanding what I meant. Yes, the scripture is 'very' easy to understand and 'metaphorically' I am stating they are already dead just as Christ stated.

Luke 9:6 0But Jesus told him, “Let the dead bury their own dead. You, however, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”

Spiritually dead is not not being with the Lord, and while you believe all are saved, that is 'not' what Christ is stating here about people who are 'alive,' but dead ... He is not merely 'calling names,' but making a point.

I hope you understand. In truth, I'm tired and write poorly when tired. I am sorry if that is the case.

Also no offense taken, but thank you for kindness shown. Blessings.

No. 39     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 10, 2017 at 11:40 PM     
casandie you still do not understand that verse. lets read it below,

let the dead--the dead in this part of the verse is the carnal minded living men that have not physically died yet, not those who have already died. The dead in this part of the verse is referring to the spiritually dead not the physically dead. You said they have already died but they have not. nothing physically dead can bury another physically dead

now the second half of the verse reads

Bury the dead--the dead in this part of the verse is the physically dead...those that just passed away.

If both halves were talking physical deaths in both halves, then the dead could not bury the dead.

I hope this helps you to split the verse in half.
No. 40     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 11, 2017 at 12:22 PM     
TCG -- You are just not understanding what I am stating and keep misinterpreting what is said...(again, repeating myself, I know those alive but Spiritually dead are spoken of in the verse), but there is 'more' to the message if understanding.

I have tried to relay this to you, but you keep accusing me of not understanding what is in the 'physical' (versus the Spirit). Any fool ought to know the dead is conscious of nothing and can not conduct a funeral.

The 'living' are called 'dead,' because they are without the Lord (their destination spoken of here by the Lord if not following him).

If you can't understanding what I am saying...I tried.

As stated -- leaving the discussion and bidding you well.

No. 41     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 11, 2017 at 12:34 PM     
Ok in your post you state they, the spiritually dead ones, are already physically dead and they are not. You made it sound by your early post that the physically dead come out of their grave to bury the recent deceast and then crawl back in their grave to die a second time. Thats exactly what you made it sound like tahts why i said it made me laugh. But regardless that is not what second death is.

the point of the verse is you cannot be of the world and follow christ both. Its one or the other not both.
No. 42     Reply: Re: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 11, 2017 at 12:51 PM     
texascowgirl283 wrote: Ok in your post you state they, the spiritually dead ones, are already physically dead and they are not. You made it sound by your early post that the physically dead come out of their grave to bury the recent deceast and then crawl back in their grave to die a second time. Thats exactly what you made it sound like tahts why i said it made me laugh. But regardless that is not what second death is.

the point of the verse is you cannot be of the world and follow christ both. Its one or the other not both.


CAsandie wrote: Spiritually dead is not not being with the Lord, and while you believe all are saved, that is 'not' what Christ is stating here about people who are 'alive,' but dead ... He is not merely 'calling names,' but making a point.


This is what I wrote, but t's okay. Not a problem. Have a great day!



No. 43     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 11, 2017 at 1:00 PM     
thats not the correct post comment of yours that im talking about. It was somelthing else you said. Go back to where i was laughing. Anyway, let the dead bury the dead has nothing to do with what happens to man after death in the second death judgment.

let me do this in a way you can understand it.

Let the dead---this would be the spiritually dead which is all of us....living mankind.

Bury the dead---thats referring to us (living carnal minded humans) burying those that we love who have passed away/died.

That is what all living carnal minded humans do. when a family member dies, your gonna take care of burial arrangements. It is all of mankind that is spiritually dead casandie that buries our deceast loved ones.

We follow the way of the world.
No. 44     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 11, 2017 at 1:13 PM     
No worries. :2thumbs:

I do hope in understanding what I have said now that you might consider it more greatly.

It's rather simple to understand...I know, but rich in meaning.

Following (which is action) Jesus is the Way (as the man who asked to bury his dead was taught and this lesson so given to us to 'put God first' and 'act'/'do').

John 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

(busy today and have to keep this short, but bidding you well here).

mod. add scripture and modify to deter further discussion in any disagreements held due to lack of time.

No. 45     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 11, 2017 at 4:20 PM     
the only problem is man cannot do it.
No. 46     Reply: Re: Re: One question   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Jul 11, 2017 at 7:03 PM     
texascowgirl283 wrote:

the only problem is man cannot do it.



You are right TCG ... man cannot do it ... but ...

Christ in man ... can.
No. 47     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  RadioPreacherMan   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Jul 11, 2017 at 7:14 PM     
:Hole:
No. 48     Reply: Re: One question   
By:  texascowgirl283   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  Jul 11, 2017 at 8:15 PM     
yes but when rpm? I guess this all depends on what it means to you to pick up the cross and follow christ. You seem to always be waiting to see changes in men today on this earth. But its not about seeing good changes in man that you keep looking for in me as you keep saying checking in to see if any changes in me. You dont need to check on what im posting here to see if i have picked up the cross and followed christ....all you have to do is look for my name in the obits. If its there, Then you will know i have picked up the cross and followed christ.

Honestly, do you know anyone who wants to pick up the cross and follow christ? I sure dont. People who can afford it are out there doing everything they can to not die to self such as going to hospitals when sick, going to the gym to get great bodies, eating as healthy as they can, taking vitamins, and doing all they can not to die to self/pick up the cross and follow christ. Man avoids it all cost spending money galore to prevent dying to self as for as long as they possibly can. People do everything they can to not suffer for christ [by going to hospitals to prevent pain and suffering] and not dying to self [by doing all the can to prevent sickness and death]. No man is in a hurry to pick up the cross and follow christ given what it means. NO one is WILLINGLY suffering and dying for christ. Man does everything he can to prevent it.