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MeetChristians.com / Forums / General Discussion

No. 0     Original Topic:  Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Mar 14, 2010 at 5:10 PM   Viewed 36329 times     
I already own a small variety of firearms but not a handgun convenient for concealed carry. Later this year I am attending a defensive handgun training session and would like to have my own handgun for the 4 days rather than rent or borrow one. Following with a concealed carry class.

At this point I think I have it narrowed down to a .45 ACP safe action semi-auto. Supposedly a .45 inherently has more stopping power and in most hands is more accurate than other calibers. But that can vary with the individual and how comfortable they are with a specific handgun regardless of caliber.

I know any gun will do if you will do and as long as you know how to effectively use it, but at the moment I do not shoot one regularly. Typically only seems to be a fall and winter activity.

I am kind of leaning towards a Springfield XD. I like their safety feature requiring the grip safety to be depressed and the trigger activated before firing can occur. Makes it much less likely to discharge when required to shove a gun into the waistband or hip pocket if both hands are needed immediately free for non-lethal defense or maneuvering.
No. 1     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  MountainMan   Gender: M   Age: 68   on  Mar 14, 2010 at 5:30 PM     
I think the gun you should get depends on what you want to do with it. A Glock 27 is a commonly used backup for us cops. It is small and coceals easily but in 40 cal has enough stopping power. If you don't shoot a lot and are not a natural shooter...you might consider a 9mm. A 45 has a lotta stopping power but is hard to control. It has a definite crack to the sound of the projectile being fired and is awful on your ears at best.
My recommendation to you....decide what you really want the gun to do for you and where and how you want to carry it. A holster is recommended over a pocket of naked waistband. Ankle holsters are good...unless you wear cowboy boots and you don't look like a cowboy boot wearer.

Good luck..ohh I carry a Glock Model 22....on and off duty...works well.
No. 2     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Mar 14, 2010 at 5:40 PM     
Thanks MM. I like Glocks, but for some reason lately find myself leaning towards others.

I have read if not really sure what you want and will do with it, the .45 ACP is the proven best all around defensive handgun. I do not shoot a lot, but do seem to have an inherent ability for it. Guns and bows BTW.

I plan to have some kind of holster for concealed carry, but sometimes there could be an immediate situation that does not lend itself to the holster being convenient to use.

And I do wear cowboy boots fairly often socially.
No. 3     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  MountainMan   Gender: M   Age: 68   on  Mar 14, 2010 at 5:47 PM     
Hahahaa...well cowboy boots it is then. A 45 is hard to conceal...and if you get a smaller frame it kicks like a mule. There is a definite reason cops don't all carry them. But if you want to...by all means jump on it. I carried one at one of the departments I worked at and hated that boat anchor with a passion. It DOES have one heck of a great "knock down" power edge over most any other handgun caliber...
No. 4     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Mar 14, 2010 at 5:55 PM     
At this point, not really sure what handgun is right for me and not really sure how far I plan to go with this. At the moment the intent is for personal reasons. Friends of mine work armed security and private investigation and say they always need more bodies with concealed carry permits. I am also a local Homeland Security team volunteer. As semi-retirement frees up my time, I lean towards getting more seriously involved in such activities.
No. 5     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Keisha   Gender: F   Age: 28   on  Mar 14, 2010 at 7:45 PM     
I want to learn to really shoot, and when we have extra money or can trade someday, we want to get a lighter handgun for me. We've had a copperhead snake in our yard and love the outdoors, so with Will gone alot, I want to be able to shoot.
No. 6     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 14, 2010 at 8:43 PM     
I have a Bersa Thunder .380. Some men think its a 'woman's' gun, but many LEO's use it for their backup and its small size is great for concealed carry. Though some also consider it 'barely at the minimum' for a self-defense handgun, with some of the newer, faster ammo out its penetrating powers have greatly increased. All-in-all, a decent small handgun that works well with concealed carry.

Oh, and Keisha, it would STILL be a great handgun for a woman.

I recommend any and all getting proper training. Find a local 'Appleseed' traning weekend (http://appleseedinfo.org/)-they are held all over the country.

Other recommended excellent training sites:

Gunsite

http://www.gunsite.com/


Front Sight

http://www.frontsight.com/landingpg-1.asp?src=gaw&kw=firearms%20training&gclid=CLmD0-bLuaACFdhM5QodfQP7Vg


Tactical Response

http://www.tacticalresponse.com/


Personally, I'd love to go to an Appleseeds and hope to do so. If you have the time, I'd recommend listening to a podcast interview done a few days ago with the Appleseed Project founder...

Episode-396- An Interview with Michael Adam of the Appleseed Project
http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/


-------------------------------------------------------------
Some personal information as extra -

I will be going to Wyoming for the entire month of June. While there, I will be attending...

Dirttime 10

http://dirttime.com/

...and the Wyoming Free State Freedom Expo immediately afterwards at the same location. The first 2 days of the Expo I am signed up for a 2-day intensive handgun training session consisting of the following by a professional LEO trainer:

Course Outline

Saturday, 9:00am Introduction

9:10am Safety; the 4 Rules, Range Safety, Hot Range
9:45am Eye dominance check. Importance of open eyes, dealing with eye issues
10:00am Marksmanship; Sights and Trigger.
10:15am First shots; diagnosing problems, trigger drills
11:00am Ready Positions. Shots from the ready position
12:00am Lunch
1:00pm The 3 Step Draw
1:30pm Keeping the gun running
2:00pm Movement; Drag Step
3:30pm Cover and Concealment
4:00pm Single hand drills
5:00pm Dinner break, reconvene at 8:00 for low light drills

8:00pm Low light; explanation of lights and light liability and benefits
8:30pm Pistol silhouette aiming. Muzzle blast aiming
9:00pm Shooting using the flashlight.
10:00pm Wrap up and questions

Sunday

10:00am Recap of Saturday
10:30am The 3 step draw with movement warm up
11:00am Shooting from the retention position with movement
11:30am Disarming drills
12:30pm Lunch
1:30pm After lunch Warm up
1:45pm Slicing the Pie
2:30pm Teamwork
3:30pm Shooting from unconventional positions.
4:45pm Wrap up and questions

I am soooooo looking forward to this!
No. 7     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  MountainMan   Gender: M   Age: 68   on  Mar 14, 2010 at 8:59 PM     
Storm...Looks like a great school...

Keisha...they make snake shot that is like tiny shot in a shell...like a shotgun shell..little pellets....
Work really well for shooting snakes..we used em a lot in Florida...they make em for all caliber of guns...
No. 8     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  joyful   Gender: F   Age: 53   on  Mar 15, 2010 at 8:21 AM     
i have an older 38, but have never fired it. that class sounds great.
No. 9     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Mar 15, 2010 at 10:40 AM     
Unless something else presents itself as more appealing, at this time I plan to attend a frontsight course. Although a personal friend and employee of mine is the lead trainer for a local program.
No. 10     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Mar 15, 2010 at 10:59 AM     
Stormchaser wrote:
Though some also consider it 'barely at the minimum' for a self-defense handgun, with some of the newer, faster ammo out its penetrating powers have greatly increased. All-in-all, a decent small handgun that works well with concealed carry.



You are correct as far as being at the minimum. Less than a .38 is considered useless by many for effective protection. But it is easily concealable.

Have checked out some .38s and done some shooting with them. It is what my uncle carries. On the too "light" side for my preference.

As MM mentions, a Glock 27 or at least some .40, seems to be the choice by most as a backup with the Glock 22 .40 for when on duty.

For personal protection, most the courses seem to push a .45.

Still up in the air for me, but some further research since last night now has me considering a .40.

There are conversion kits for the Glock 22 that allows one to shoot .22LR for less costly recreational shooting versus using .40s.
No. 11     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  pennsenator46   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Mar 15, 2010 at 8:35 PM     
Darrell wrote:.......... At this point, not really sure what handgun is right for me and not really sure how far I plan to go with this. At the moment the intent is for personal reasons. Friends of mine work armed security and private investigation and say they always need more bodies with concealed carry permits. I am also a local Homeland Security team volunteer. As semi-retirement frees up my time, I lean towards getting more seriously involved in such activities.


In Florida, PIs and security guards are limited to calibers by thier licenses. Check the statuates from your state. I think Florida limits to 9mm and 38 cal hand guns. Neither activity is allowed on a CCW license.

What can you shoot reliably. A .45 acp, 9mm, S&W.40 cal have the same "knock" down power on a miss. Go to a range that rents handguns. Rent the ones you are interested in. Shoot some targets at about 7 to 15 yards. Which ones can you hit the target on? Buy that one.

Personally I find the 9mm and the .40 S&W to have more snap and hurt my wrists more than my 1911s in .45 acp. Limp wristing in any caliber will cause problems so you'll need to have a firm grip.

I have an XD in .40 cal. The .40 is a good all round performance which is the reason the FBI and many police departments us it. tHe XD trigger is OK and it shoots reliably.



No. 12     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Mar 16, 2010 at 1:17 PM     
Talked with a friend this AM that has a Springfield XD .45. He says his .40 and .38 have just as much kick. But I assume much of that perception can rest with the user. Says he prefers his .45 overall.
No. 13     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Vickie   Gender: F   Age: 55   on  Mar 16, 2010 at 1:26 PM     
Do most shooting ranges sell guns and let you try them before purchase?

I like my .38 revolver because it won't fire when dropped, thankfully, but I also don't need to mess with a safety. It's harder to squeze the trigger if not cocked, but not terribly hard, making quick response easy.

I can't say it's very accurate beyond close range though.
No. 14     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 16, 2010 at 1:49 PM     
Vickie wrote:

Do most shooting ranges sell guns and let you try them before purchase?

I like my .38 revolver because it won't fire when dropped, thankfully, but I also don't need to mess with a safety. It's harder to squeze the trigger if not cocked, but not terribly hard, making quick response easy.

I can't say it's very accurate beyond close range though.


I've heard it said from 'gun' people that a handgun's purpose is to allow you to get to your rifle. Sounds right to me.
No. 15     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Angelfish   Gender: F   Age: 31   on  Mar 16, 2010 at 5:56 PM     
I would love to go to Front Sight at some point. Everyone I've talked to has nothing but great things to say about it.

I'm more of a revolver lady when it comes to handguns. Although we own a nice CZ-97 that is one of the best handguns I've had. My personal revolver is a S&W 686 four inch, seven shot. Nice and shiny. I also use hollow points for it.
No. 16     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 16, 2010 at 8:44 PM     
It is virtually amazing to me that a little over 6 months ago I had never bought a gun in my whole life, and now I have a handgun and 3 rifles, with more, I am sure, to come.


Don't mess with me....:2thumbs:
No. 17     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  pennsenator46   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Mar 16, 2010 at 9:19 PM     
Vickie wrote:........... Do most shooting ranges sell guns and let you try them before purchase?.......


No. No shoot before you buy.

Indoor ranges often have gun stores attached. Many indoor ranges have rental guns that can be rented. THey are often of the type you can buy in the store.
No. 18     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Curtis   Gender: M   Age: 47   on  Mar 16, 2010 at 9:36 PM     
I have a variety of rifles and shot guns...But just one hand gun.

Like Jim said, It all depends on what you are gonna use it for.

I have a .22 revolver and only carry it when I go fishing or hunting.
mainly for snakes like Copperheads, Cottonmouths and rattlers.
Ive had too many close calls and my rifle leaning against a tree or empty.

I also like target practicing with it as well.

I havent found a need for me to carry anything bigger...Plus sometimes not having ear plugs,Bigger guns can be deafening.

Curt,
No. 19     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Mar 17, 2010 at 3:37 AM     
Stormchaser wrote:

It is virtually amazing to me that a little over 6 months ago I had never bought a gun in my whole life, and now I have a handgun and 3 rifles, with more, I am sure, to come.


Don't mess with me....:2thumbs:



I have had guns since I was kid.
No. 20     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 17, 2010 at 2:40 PM     
Darrell wrote:

Stormchaser wrote:

It is virtually amazing to me that a little over 6 months ago I had never bought a gun in my whole life, and now I have a handgun and 3 rifles, with more, I am sure, to come.


Don't mess with me....:2thumbs:



I have had guns since I was kid.


Ok, 'Cisco'!
No. 21     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Kari   Gender: F   Age: 58   on  Mar 17, 2010 at 5:50 PM     
No. 22     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 17, 2010 at 8:34 PM     
Kari wrote:



And here I thought you had a head on your shoulders...
No. 23     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Kari   Gender: F   Age: 58   on  Mar 17, 2010 at 8:47 PM     
Stormchaser wrote:

Kari wrote:



And here I thought you had a head on your shoulders...


lol I DO.. good chance who ever owned this gun last... doesn't.
No. 24     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Mar 21, 2010 at 12:48 AM     
I have turned my efforts from deciding on the gun to more so deciding on the training.

Strongly leaning towards Front Sight. If I am not mistaken, seems outdoorsman turned me on to them. They are supposedly the largest and have supposedly trained more gun users in the US than all other gun use schools combined. Not only do they provide training, they appear to be a gun ownership movement.

Once you complete their training, you supposedly possess gun handling, marksmanship, and tactical skills, ranked at surpassing 99% of the gun owning public. Supposedly the training at Front Sight takes you to levels that far exceed what most receive in the law enforcement and military communities.
No. 25     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Mar 21, 2010 at 1:01 AM     
pennsenator46 wrote:

In Florida, PIs and security guards are limited to calibers by thier licenses. Check the statuates from your state. I think Florida limits to 9mm and 38 cal hand guns. Neither activity is allowed on a CCW license.




I do need to check state statutes again. Word of mouth, I have been told here in MI we are not limited.

Also, the CCW I am looking at has reciprocity agreements in place that allow you to carry a concealed handgun in 30 states. But I still have to apply for a totally altogether separate CCW for here in Michigan.
No. 26     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Mar 21, 2010 at 2:24 AM     
I have learned I can take my choice of Front Sight course for as low as $129.00. Of course you do not get the so called free gun, CCW course, and all other accessories they promote you get with the $1200 package.
No. 27     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 2, 2010 at 12:02 AM     
Forget the $129 prices on eBay. Front Sight has an April special going on were as their regular priced $1000 2 day defensive handgun class is only $100.
No. 28     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 2, 2010 at 12:26 AM     
Did a lot of research and looking at handguns the past couple weeks. Back to desiring a .45 ACP. Most likely a Springfield XD.
No. 29     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 2, 2010 at 12:32 AM     
Vickie wrote:

Do most shooting ranges sell guns and let you try them before purchase?




Some do, some don't.

Many firearms training programs allow you to use their guns and ammo for like $25 per day.
No. 30     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  hikari961   Gender: F   Age: 44   on  Apr 2, 2010 at 10:41 PM     
I will never buy a handgun for the simple reason that I am way too clumsy and would only succeed in shooting myself in the foot or somewhere even more important. There is the tiny but plausible chance that I might have a period of despair in which having a gun in the house wouldn't be advisable, either.

Pepper spray is probably the only weapon I could be trusted with and perhaps not even that . . .
No. 31     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 2, 2010 at 10:46 PM     
hikari961 wrote:

Pepper spray is probably the only weapon I could be trusted with and perhaps not even that . . .



Have you done yourself with that? I know of people that have just to see how effective it is.

But I also know people that have cattle prodded themselves, put on the dog's barking collar, etc...
No. 32     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 4, 2010 at 7:31 PM     
Contacted Front Sight yesterday to order my package and learned I cannot get the gun included with the package prior to class without having it shipped to a local firearms dealer. Going to have to see if I can hunt down one of my acquaintances that has an FFL license to get it in hand prior to my training.
No. 33     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 7, 2010 at 3:39 AM     
Decided to see what it takes to get my own Federal Firearms License. Not as tough to get as I thought. Sounds as if there may be more local and state hoops to jump through than Federal. But supposedly I can have my own FFL within 4-6 weeks.
No. 34     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 7, 2010 at 4:42 AM     
ATF site says it takes 60 days from the time they receive app to get your FFL if not delayed for some reason.

Ordered an application kit this AM.
No. 35     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 7, 2010 at 2:41 PM     
Wow! This took a fast and exciting twist. Just hours from even thinking about obtaining an FFL, I find myself in the midst of forming a new limited liabilty corporation to provide FFL service to local law enforcement.

When making contacts this AM for my research on local ordinances for operating with an FFL in my area I stumbled onto a need of local law enforcement and many private gun owners for someone with a type 07 FFL with a class 3 and/or 2 license.

Then it kind of snowballed from there. Now find myself with four pending affiliate agreements with major firearms and self defense training programs to offer local transfer services, etc., for them.

Such was the farthest thing from my mind this AM when I thought "Hey, why not just get my own FFL" after making some contacts and finding no one locally offering what I wanted done.
No. 36     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Apr 7, 2010 at 4:03 PM     
(whoops, didn't notice that this was a dated thread and that I already posted about my handgun, but since I like it I'm leaving in the repeated info, so there...:tongue: )

Darrell I have one of the supposedly best CC handguns, the Bersa Thunder 380. It is small and I like it quite a bit, and supposedly (have not tried to do it myself yet) it conceals very well. Apparently many LEO use it for their own backup CC weapons and in fact, I bought mine from a LEO. 380 ammo though is expensive and hard to find locally. The gun itself is very inexpensive, with going new for around $250 or so, and I bought mine 'used' (I don't think its ever been fired) for $200.

If you like 45's, you might want to get a copy of the current Backwoods Home magazine ( http://www.backwoodshome.com/current_issue.html ) and check out p. 71, the Ed Brown Custom Massad Ayoob Signature Model .45. Unfortunately the article is not available online so you'll have to hit the bookstores. I've read the article and am favorably impressed with what I read, though it appears the weapon is rather expensive.
No. 37     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 8, 2010 at 3:34 AM     
Thanks Storm. I will try to check that article out. Not 100% sure, but leaning very strongly towards a.45 ACP with a 4" barrel. Fits my hand nicely. Better than any .40 SW or a Glock so far. I have hands on the small side. Have read many very favorable reviews on the Springfield XD .45 ACP in LEO publications and online.

One of my buddies showed up this week proudly sporting his CCW. Got his last Thursday. He carries a .38.

I am in a little bit of a dilemma. Had hoped to have my new handgun soon, but have learned I can save a minimum of 30% on the price if I wait until I get my FFL. That is looking like at least 6-8 weeks away, but what it would save me on the gun more than pays me back the $200 FFL application fee.
No. 38     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 8, 2010 at 4:30 AM     
Speaking of small handguns, have you seen the Ruger LCP 380? Sweet little gun.
No. 39     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  MountainMan   Gender: M   Age: 68   on  Apr 8, 2010 at 4:41 PM     
Man have you fired the small framed 45s? They kick pretty good and if you have small hands...hang on man...you are in for a ride. Any gun..as you know..is only as good as the shooter. Since you said that about small hands..avoid Glocks and certain Smiths as you need to have a real good grip on them to remain accurately on target. I have larger ..thick hands and have still had to learn to shoot the Glocks. I carried a Colt Python for many years and they are heavy..so I developed a lighter grip. Then when the lighter weapons (weight wise) came out..I had to relearn my grip. Good luck and good shooting man.:2thumbs:
No. 40     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  pennsenator46   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Apr 8, 2010 at 9:15 PM     
You'll need a firm grip with and semi-auto anyway to keep from limp wristing the gun. Revolvers, ie Colt Python, don't have the same forces a foot. There's more going on with a semi-auto.

No. 41     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 9, 2010 at 12:48 PM     
MountainMan wrote:

Man have you fired the small framed 45s?



I have not shot regularly with any handgun. Regardless, I find myself leaning towards the .45 from my own personal experience, that of friends, published reviews, and every handgun training school program I have contacted have said bring whatever you want, some did state not less than a .38, but all recommend if in doubt a .45 is the best all around choice to at least initially use for tactical training and to earn a CCW.

Keep interjecting though. I respect your opinions from your obvious experience.

Interesting tid bit - I spent some time with a 'hand to hand' combat program this AM. They stated stats indicate less than 3% of victims 'expire' or are stopped from simply a handgun wound. That many just have a hole poked in them and are apt to keep coming no matter how many times hit unless it is a 'disabling' wound. Their attempt seems to be to develop a 'no fear' attitude and that simply because your assailant has a handgun do not lose your self-defense or survival confidence, and that a seasoned criminal is not going to have a fear of you just because you have a handgun. They too know it most often only pokes holes and that 99% of the gun owning public do not know how to effectively handle their weapon for self-defense.

A personal acquaintance of mine was hit at least 7 times with a handgun and kept going.
No. 42     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  MountainMan   Gender: M   Age: 68   on  Apr 9, 2010 at 1:18 PM     
Darrell wrote:

MountainMan wrote:

Man have you fired the small framed 45s?



I have not shot regularly with any handgun. Regardless, I find myself leaning towards the .45 from my own personal experience, that of friends, published reviews, and every handgun training school program I have contacted have said bring whatever you want, some did state not less than a .38, but all recommend if in doubt a .45 is the best all around choice to at least initially use for tactical training and to earn a CCW.

Keep interjecting though. I respect your opinions from your obvious experience.

Interesting tid bit - I spent some time with a 'hand to hand' combat program this AM. They stated stats indicate less than 3% of victims 'expire' or are stopped from simply a handgun wound. That many just have a hole poked in them and are apt to keep coming no matter how many times hit unless it is a 'disabling' wound. Their attempt seemed to be to develop in you a 'no fear' attitude simply because your assailant has handgun, and that a seasoned criminal is not going to have a fear of you just because you have a handgun. They too know it most often only pokes holes.

A personal acquaintance of mine was hit at least 7 times with a handgun and kept going.

OK..don't wanna be too graphic for some here..BUT..I shot a man in the forehead with a .38 super vel hollow point fired out of a S&W Model 10 38. It poked a small hole in the front and took a huge chunk out of the back of his head. He was dead before he hit the floor. Also larger caliber projectiles can go through a body and kill or injure others that don't need shooting. A 45 is one of those..though the "knockdown" from a 45 is fabulous. I am trained to do either center of mass or head shots. So many criminals have vests thet I have opted for head shots. My .40 Csal will kill a man in one shot..like a sniper (which I also was) one shot..one kill. Kinda like I mentioned to you before early on..you have to decide what you want the gun to do for you...and..what type of area you are likely to have to use it in. Hope that helps...Jim
No. 43     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 9, 2010 at 11:00 PM     
Well, I would consider a head shot a 'disabling' hit. Many handgun training programs teach 1-2 shots to the thoracic area and if still moving then a head shot.
No. 44     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  BookBinderGirl   Gender: F   Age: 41   on  Apr 11, 2010 at 3:47 PM     
Darrell wrote:

Speaking of small handguns, have you seen the Ruger LCP 380? Sweet little gun.


This is the one I use for concealed carry. I really like the size.
No. 45     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 13, 2010 at 12:03 AM     
I have checked out so many different handguns the past couple days, that the only purpose served has been to confuse. Lots out there at some greatly reduced prices from MSRP at the moment. Was going to mail order a gun or order off the Internet, but local gun shops seem to be bending over backwards to get the business. Throwing in all kinds of gear and 1 year shooting range memberships.

Some really great buys on .40s at the moment. Especially Smith and Wesson M&Ps. Limited sale prices scheduled to expire back in March are still being honored.
No. 46     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 18, 2010 at 2:59 AM     
Got some hands on with a .40 Smith & Wesson M&P this weekend. The model without a safety. I don't know. Back to leaning towards the Springfield XD .45, maybe the .40, but the reviews favor the .45 as being a more ideal concealed carry at least in the XD model.

I know it rest a lot in the hands of the user, but the S&W just felt unsafe. Very easy to handle and not much kick. Can empty a magazine quickly and accurately, but something about that lack of a 'safety' with one in the chamber is an uncomfortable feeling. Maybe just not confident enough with it.
No. 47     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 18, 2010 at 3:07 AM     
pennsenator46 wrote:
I have an XD in .40 cal. The .40 is a good all round performance which is the reason the FBI and many police departments us it. tHe XD trigger is OK and it shoots reliably.



Have read many very positive reviews on the XD by LEOs, but they all say go with the .45. Report it is actually more comfortable in the hand and easier to control than the .40. But I can get a great buy on the compact 3" barrel .40 XD right now. Checking it out this afternoon.
No. 48     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  hhh   Gender: M   Age: 49   on  Apr 18, 2010 at 4:53 AM     


I've been shot two different times, and stabbed once.
I still have no use for a gun.

I would rather get shot again, than stand in front of Jesus with blood on my hands.

No. 49     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 18, 2010 at 10:08 AM     
hhh wrote:



I've been shot two different times, and stabbed once.
I still have no use for a gun.

I would rather get shot again, than stand in front of Jesus with blood on my hands.




The Bible directs us to take up weapons to protect ourselves and loved ones.

I am sorry to hear of your misfortunes. I have been a victim of crime, attempted assaults, guns pulled on me, been shot at, and have had knives pulled on me. Even had an arrow shot at me with intent to do harm. In all situations I required no accessory or external weapon to defend myself. But getting older and thinking I maybe should not rely on just 'brains and brawn' so much any longer. Too many counting on me to be around. Such as my daughter.
No. 50     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  hhh   Gender: M   Age: 49   on  Apr 19, 2010 at 9:53 AM     




2 Kings 1:9

Then the king sent unto him a captain of fifty with his fifty. And he went up to him: and, behold, he sat on the top of an hill. And he spake unto him, Thou man of God, the king hath said, Come down.
10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, IF I BE A MAN OF GOD, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.
11 Again also he sent unto him another captain of fifty with his fifty. And he answered and said unto him, O man of God, thus hath the king said, Come down quickly.
12 And Elijah answered and said unto them, IF I BE A MAN OF GOD, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.
13 And he sent again a captain of the third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight.


No. 51     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 19, 2010 at 12:57 PM     
Exodus 22:2-3 tells us: "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."

Luke 11:21-22: "When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils."

1 Timothy 5:8 tells us: "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

Christ told His disciples in His last hours with them: ". . . But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a sack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one" (Lk. 22:36). Keep in mind that the sword was the finest offensive weapon available to an individual soldier—the equivalent then of a military rifle today.

God told the prophet Malachi: "For I am the Lord, I do not change. . ." (Mal. 3:6).

There is more...


No. 52     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  hhh   Gender: M   Age: 49   on  Apr 20, 2010 at 1:39 AM     




2 CORINTHIANS
Chapter 10:1-5

Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you:

But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.

For though we walk in the flesh, WE DO NOT WAR AFTER THE FLESH:

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;





No. 53     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 23, 2010 at 11:32 PM     
Man the ATF seems to move slowly. Just today received my FFL application package. I requested this package online about 20 days ago. I expected to receive such in less than a week.
No. 54     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 23, 2010 at 11:47 PM     
The ATF's seemingly slow response delayed the publishing of an article I authored on the FFL application process. I opted to delay publishing until comparing the in hand documents to what my online research had revealed.
No. 55     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 27, 2010 at 11:08 PM     
What kind of handgun are you?


http://www.frontsight.com/handgun-quiz.asp
No. 56     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 27, 2010 at 11:17 PM     
Hmmm... I am a: Heckler and Koch, Model P7 in 9mm


No. 57     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Kari   Gender: F   Age: 58   on  Apr 27, 2010 at 11:26 PM     
well, it certainly is a test designed with a male in mind...but with a little improvising in thought..

What Handgun Are You?
You are a:
Glock Model 22 in 40 cal!

No. 58     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Apr 27, 2010 at 11:39 PM     
Kari wrote:

well, it certainly is a test designed with a male in mind...but with a little improvising in thought..




Well, there is no way I intend to be left with Martha Stewart no matter who the other choice is.
No. 59     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Kari   Gender: F   Age: 58   on  Apr 27, 2010 at 11:44 PM     
Darrell wrote:

Kari wrote:

well, it certainly is a test designed with a male in mind...but with a little improvising in thought..




Well, there is no way I intend to be left with Martha Stewart no matter who the other choice is.


LOL I hear you. I picked Paris, myself. it beat listening to Martha.
No. 60     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  88Keys4Him62   Gender: F   Age: 48   on  Apr 28, 2010 at 12:30 AM     
I am a Heckler and Koch, Model P7 in 9mm!

I wouldn't want to be stuck with Martha either.
No. 61     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Curtis   Gender: M   Age: 47   on  Apr 28, 2010 at 7:56 AM     
What ever happened to the 357 magnum?? It use to be standard police issue...Years ago. Before bad guys started carrying bigger guns.


Curt,
No. 62     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  May 1, 2010 at 12:30 PM     
No. 63     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  May 1, 2010 at 1:09 PM     
Current cover article in BACKWOODS HOME MAGAZINE

http://www.backwoodshome.com

...is about the Appleseeds training

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob123.html

...as well as an article about the Tea Parties

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/silveira123.html
No. 64     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 7, 2010 at 9:30 PM     
After all my fuzziness on selecting a handgun caliber, I finally settled for smaller than I thought would make me happy. Decided to be James Bond and purchased a Walther PK380. A .380 caliber.

Several things influenced my decision. First of all, it was the first handgun I have picked up of several that felt right off the get go it was custom made for my hand. Second, supposedly .380 caliber ammo has become the most popular in the US and easiest to locate. Exhibits very light recoil. Very accurate. They have become very popular since they hit the market early this year and supposedly difficult to find in stock. In fact, I only managed to snag mine without having to wait for one to come in only because a lady had it in layaway and opted instead on a little pink Taurus .380.

I actually set out with every intention of at getting at least a .40. But after reading a lot of reviews and handling several guns, I opted to wait until I could actually try one of these. I knew right away this was my handgun.

I also purchased a 4 day handgun course from FrontSight. Have yet to get out there to attend. Taking my CCW locally within the next couple weeks or so. Would like to become more familiar with the gun first.
No. 65     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 7, 2010 at 9:35 PM     
Here she is:

No. 66     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 8, 2010 at 3:11 PM     
When I was picking up some 380 ammo at Wal-Mart today, the clerk informed me that by Christmas Wal-Mart should be in the business of selling firearms again.
No. 67     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 8, 2010 at 5:52 PM     
380 ammo has been easy to find, but spare magazines for this gun are out of stock and/or backordered most everywhere. I did find a place online with some in stock, but I just paid them top dollar for one. I would like to have a total of four, but was not going to pay that much each for more than one. I have an order placed for a laser sight and spare mag combo pack, but it too is out of stock and on backorder.
No. 68     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 8, 2010 at 6:31 PM     
Darrell wrote:

Several things influenced my decision. First of all, it was the first handgun I have picked up of several that felt right off the get go it was custom made for my hand. Second, supposedly .380 caliber ammo has become the most popular in the US and easiest to locate. Exhibits very light recoil. Very accurate. They have become very popular since they hit the market early this year and supposedly difficult to find in stock. In fact, I only managed to snag mine without having to wait for one to come in only because a lady had it in layaway and opted instead on a little pink Taurus .380.



It sounds like you are jumping back and forth between discussing .380 ammo and the actual 380 gun you purchased. 380 ammo has indeed, been a tad hard to get over the past year, though it's becoming much more common now. As an example, I was requested to acquire 1,000 rounds of ammo for my handgun training in Wyoming in June. I managed to accomplish that, but it took months of picking it up piecemeal. Could I have purchased it online? Yes, and I actually ordered 600 rounds from Cabella's online site. It was tentatively promised for the middle of May. My handgun course was in June. It finally arrived (in Ohio) after I was in Wyoming. :headbang:

I did see it available in Wal Mart's the further West I got, but it was scarce in Ohio for the last year, Now, as I mentioned, I've seen it in Meijer and some other stores, not always, but sometimes.

I think from this point most ammo, including .380, will be readily available.


When I was picking up some 380 ammo at Wal-Mart today, the clerk informed me that by Christmas Wal-Mart should be in the business of selling firearms again.


Again referring to my trip out West, guns were readily available in Wal Marts in Wyoming, S. Dakota, and others. But not here in Ohio, and obviously in Michigan. It would be good for the company as a whole to quit bowing to political correctness and offer what the public wants.
No. 69     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 8, 2010 at 8:31 PM     
Early this year and dating well back into last year, 380 ammo was hard to get. Supposedly in more recent weeks to the past couple months that is no longer the case. It is on the shelf everywhere here. Last year people panicked and hoarded ammo and falsely drove up the price of weapons. Both becoming more available and at lower prices. Especially guns are down in price, and ammo has reduced in cost 35% or more.

BTW - Did you end up actually shooting a thousand rounds? I have an upcoming class in Nevada and they suggested not attempting to bring the ammo. Not even my own pistol if I did not want to but did say it is good to learn your own gun. They said for something like $100-$150 they will provide the weapon and ammo for the entire 4 days of class or if I brought my own gun, ammo is readily available.
No. 70     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 8, 2010 at 8:46 PM     
BTW - I just went back and read that you have the Bersa .380. That is a good little handgun too.
No. 71     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 8, 2010 at 8:46 PM     
Oops, I did a 'Shodan' and accidentally hit the 'Report' button. Sorry, Dev.

Umm, if guns are cheaper, I didn't notice it at the gun show I was at 2 weeks ago. I walked out not spending a dime.

Did I use the thousand rounds? No. I emailed the instructor and he said don't worry about it - I might get by with 500 rounds. As mentioned, I did manage the acquire the necessary amount (even without the Cabella's order). I actually used approx. 400-500 rounds. That was without attempting to conserve.

Having said that, there were enough of us to be put in two relays. The newer and inexperienced people (me) were put in the first relay. The more experienced - second relay. I noticed the second relay most definitely was not shy of expending ammo. Even so, I'd be surprised to find they reached the thousand rounds, though 800 might have been achieved.

Btw, I am estactic! I hit the 'mother lode' of garage sales today. A fireman and former cop, plus his fiancee Army med tech, were unloading a bunch of gear. My brother found the sale first and picked up some OUTSTANDING deals on medical, large bags, actually full of gear and other bags. I'm jealous. I found holsters and belt cartridge cases pouches for my gun. I didn't have a good holster. Bought an all-leather $75 (originally) leather 9mm holster that could be used by my Bersa for $10, plus a nylon holster and the magazine holders. I'm a happy camper!


Finally, a slight correction to my earlier posts in this thread. I know now that the APPLESEED training weekends are solely for rifles - no handguns at all.
No. 72     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 8, 2010 at 8:52 PM     
Darrell wrote:

BTW - I just went back and read that you have the Bersa .380. That is a good little handgun too.


It is, though I had some trouble with it the second day of the handgun training. Appears that it wasn't the gun, but rather a certain manufacturer's bullets and the Bersa didn't get along too well. I like the gun a lot, though I will still be looking for a .22 handgun and something larger than the Bersa, likely a .40 caliber.

No. 73     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 8, 2010 at 9:10 PM     
I know a lot of it simply comes down to individual preference, and I am surprised I settled on the smaller .380 caliber.

Really thought I would end up with a .45 or .40. Over the past few months I personally learned the opposite about handguns over what many said. The smaller calibers can become harder to control than the larger caliber. Not enough gun weight to absorb the recoil with many small handguns. I have read that in particular about the Bersa and Ruger .380s. Especially if shooting more than a few rounds. Your hand ends up absorbing the recoil. Such is one of the supposed cons I read on many in the .380 caliber, but this little Walther is heavier than many other popular .380 handguns. But I doubt many are purchasing such a small caliber for a lot of sport shooting, but I have also read the smaller calibers can be difficult to develop accuracy with regardless of planned use.

So far, no buyer's remorse other than I know I paid $50-$70 more for the gun here locally than I could have found it for down towards Detroit or online. But for that $50 more Gander Mountain doubled the warranty on all parts and labor, gave me another lock in addition the one Walther includes, gave me a free gun sock and a free cleaning mat, a coupon for $25 off a future purchase, another coupon for $2 off a future purchase, one free future cleaning and inspection, a free membership to the Gander Mountain gun club, and they refer to the gun as Gander Mountain certified which supposedly means they will take it in trade towards something else when and if I ever opt to trade it.
No. 74     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 8, 2010 at 9:18 PM     
Stormchaser wrote:

Darrell wrote:

BTW - I just went back and read that you have the Bersa .380. That is a good little handgun too.


It is, though I had some trouble with it the second day of the handgun training. Appears that it wasn't the gun, but rather a certain manufacturer's bullets and the Bersa didn't get along too well. I like the gun a lot, though I will still be looking for a .22 handgun and something larger than the Bersa, likely a .40 caliber.



I have read reviews that state the Bersa .380 is picky about ammo, but otherwise a good small carry. As far as a .22 handgun, I am looking at another Walther. Possibly as soon as next week. And will most likely some time in the future get something larger than the .380. The Smith and Wesson Sigma Series 9mm or .40 were on my list of possibles when I made up my mind this week I was coming back home with something. In fact, you can snag either of those brand new right now for only $299. That is $100 less than last years price on them. I paid much more for the Walther PK380. Also the Springfield XD Series are way down in price from what they have been the last 2 years.
No. 75     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 8, 2010 at 9:27 PM     
I'd probably ask you for more information on how to get them, other than I am leaning toward getting a Glock, just for the great reputation Glocks have for maintenance.
No. 76     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 9, 2010 at 11:50 AM     
Most any major firearms retailer has what I consider some great bargains right now. Lots of good prices online also, but have to take into account shipping, an FFL to handle the delivery if you do not have your own license, service if there is an issue, etc.
No. 77     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 9, 2010 at 9:44 PM     
I did have a funny thing happen when picking the gun up. The sales associate was going over the paperwork and said out load "born in Erwin Tennessee". Then said he was just down that way. Then a lady walked up and engaged in considerable conversation with me saying she was born there also. And another guy mentions he also was just there.

The sales associate then joking said because of being born there, he could not sell me the gun.
No. 78     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 15, 2010 at 7:49 PM     
The Wal-Mart stores around here at the moment only carry black powder and air guns as far as firearms.
No. 79     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  StarrElement   Gender: F   Age: 54   on  Oct 15, 2010 at 8:42 PM     
Darrell wrote:

The Wal-Mart stores around here at the moment only carry black powder and air guns as far as firearms.


Darrell;

Do you know why? The ones (Walmarts) here in Georgia are one of the main places people buy ammo and guns....

The other place (big box that is) they buy is Pro Bass and places like that.

On a side note, was just talking with an old friend who collects "neat" guns; guns rarely used, not antiques, but unique nevertheless, and when he told me what he last paid for ammo, I almost fainted. About twice what I paid for ammo about a year ago... - he lives in a major city in N. Florida. : unsure : ?? if it's more expensive in some states than others, as I have only bought in Georgia.

No. 80     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 15, 2010 at 8:50 PM     
Here in Michigan, some years back, we had many retailers stop carrying firearms simply because of not desiring to make the investment and/or take the responsibility to comply with new federal, state, and local laws to keep firearms out of the hands not intended to be in.

There was a time here you could stop most anywhere such as K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Meijer, and expect to see a wide variety of firearms. Supposedly by Christmas local Wal-Marts will be doing such again.

Ammo around here is kind of a bargain now. At Wal-Mart and even such as Gander Mountain. Down at least 35% below what it cost not all that long ago.
No. 81     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 15, 2010 at 8:54 PM     
I shot up about 100 rounds today. Will probably do more than that at a class in the AM.
No. 82     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  StarrElement   Gender: F   Age: 54   on  Oct 15, 2010 at 8:56 PM     
Wow, I may tell my friend to see if he can shop online in Michigan, because the prices he quoted me today were high - very hign.

Wherein I paid about $16 for a box of a 100 a year ago, that same box he paid anywhere from $22 to $26.
No. 83     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 15, 2010 at 9:07 PM     
Gander Mountain here locally is even advertising they have ammo reduced 35%. Recently I have only purchased .380 for my new Walther. Paid about $17 each for 50 round boxes of defense loads and about $32 each for 100 round boxes of target loads. In fact, I am probably going to run to Wal-Mart in just a few to pick up a couple hundred rounds for class in the AM, even though I have 200+ rounds on hand already.

I can easily go through 100 rounds in less than 30 minutes. When you look at it that way, that can be expensive. But it is not that often I will shoot up that many rounds in such a short period. Only when training.

But shooting is a lot of fun and a great stress reliever. Several women were at the range shooting this evening. In fact, it was 2 women managing the place tonight.
No. 84     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 16, 2010 at 2:23 AM     
And I out shot every one at the range tonight with my little Walther PK380. Several were impressed with it. The thing is a charm to shoot.
No. 85     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 16, 2010 at 2:28 AM     
I guess the next question is, is it a stopper?. Many firearms experts say a determined and motivated assailant is likely to keep coming even if hit more than once with less than a .40 caliber, if not hit in the head or thoracic area.
No. 86     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 16, 2010 at 8:37 AM     
Get good at head shots.
No. 87     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 16, 2010 at 12:15 PM     
Stormchaser wrote:

Get good at head shots.



I missed an opportunity to this AM. I was supposed to be at a defensive handgun class this AM that qualifies as credit for the CCW, but I did not set my alarm. Did not get to bed until after 3 AM and I did not wake up until after 7 AM. I was supposed to be at the range by 7:45 AM. I knew I could not make it in time.

Oh well. But handgun use has become so popular around here, this range now has standing defensive and CCW classes every Saturday morning and advanced defensive classes every Sunday night. Just need to show up at least 15 minutes before start time if not pre-registered.

I am amazed at how many females and very young people in general are at the ranges. Maybe I am just getting old. This little Walther sure attracts the ladies. Many wanting to take a look at it as an alternative to their Walther .22. Many say other models of the .380 are just too small and too light. Since buying my Walther .380 I have learned that the Walther .22 is the most popular little hangun for someone desiring to carry that small a caliber and for others desiring something for low cost training that provides the feel and operation of a larger caliber. That is what attracted me to PK380, feels like a 9mm in the hand rather than feeling too small in the hand as other .380 models I checked out.

My range is a very nice indoor range, fully automated, with very low cost rentals, and a retail shop on site. And some very knowledgeable staff.
No. 88     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 16, 2010 at 11:26 PM     
What do you other handgun owners do to secure your handgun at home?

I have a large valuables safe with combination lock I could keep mine it, but the location of the safe renders getting quick access kind of not possible. I also have a small fireproof documents safe that is very secure, but anyone could find the key and get into that.

I have a cable lock and a trigger lock for the handgun itself. Not happy with either.

Today I picked up a small handgun/valuables safe by StacOn with an electronic lock. Not sure if I like it either, but much quicker to access the handgun ready to shoot than either of my other safes or with using the individual locks.

Probably going to give in and purchase a Gunvault biometric that unlocks after reading your fingerprints.
No. 89     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 17, 2010 at 12:15 AM     
Darrell wrote:



I am amazed at how many females and very young people in general are at the ranges. Maybe I am just getting old. This little Walther sure attracts the ladies.


I think you could have a skunk for a pet and somehow still attract the ladies, Darrell. I don't know what you have, but you should bottle and sell it!




My range is a very nice indoor range, fully automated, with very low cost rentals, and a retail shop on site. And some very knowledgeable staff.



I use an outdoor gun club. $100 initiation, $35/yr. plus 10 hours work, or an additional $10 for each unworked hour up to 10.

Essentially $35/yr. after the first year, just do some extra work like mowing the grass, constructing target boards, etc.

Nice thing is you can go whenever you want (daylight hours) as many times as you want. Oh, and a well-stocked gunshop about a half mile away.
No. 90     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 17, 2010 at 12:19 AM     
Darrell wrote:

What do you other handgun owners do to secure your handgun at home?



Unless you have children, why secure it at all? Somebody could break in and do away with you while you're searching for a key or combo.

I keep my gun loaded, next to the bed. If that sounds a little wild to anyone, realize that many gun-owners recommend that, and it makes sense when you think about it.

Some people keep it (or another one) loaded and just behind the front door.
No. 91     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 17, 2010 at 11:48 AM     
Stormchaser wrote:

Darrell wrote:

What do you other handgun owners do to secure your handgun at home?



Unless you have children, why secure it at all? Somebody could break in and do away with you while you're searching for a key or combo.

I keep my gun loaded, next to the bed. If that sounds a little wild to anyone, realize that many gun-owners recommend that, and it makes sense when you think about it.

Some people keep it (or another one) loaded and just behind the front door.



My brother says essentially the same. Not working for me. I am never sure what kind of company and visitors I am going to have. And I do not always walk out the door with my handgun. The thought has crossed my mind I could walk in and find my own gun pointing at me if left loaded and accessible. At the moment, I need to remember to unload and hide before going out the door.

The biometric safes appear to be my best my option for quick access to the handgun and otherwise remaining secure while loaded.

I do plan to have more than one loaded handgun around the place. Even if all have to be in biometric safes. Had planned to buy another handgun last week but got very busy at work and a family member has been in the hospital all week.

When I am the only one here, my handgun is loaded and within arms reach when I sleep. The rifles and shotguns are now locked away.
No. 92     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 17, 2010 at 6:45 PM     
Something kind of unique with Walther's that I did not even experiment with until today is an internal trigger lock. The PK380 came with a tool that inserts into a recessed hole and is turned to lock or unlock the trigger. I have determined this is more than sufficient to be able to leave the handgun loaded and openly accessible.

If you lose the tool you are kind of "up the creek". Small needle nose pliers might suffice. But may not be handy in an emergency.
No. 93     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 17, 2010 at 6:53 PM     
Darrell, Meijer has a $3/box off 50rds Winchester discount this week (starting today - Sunday). I just bought 100 rds myself.
No. 94     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 17, 2010 at 7:08 PM     
Stormchaser wrote:

Darrell, Meijer has a $3/box off 50rds Winchester discount this week (starting today - Sunday). I just bought 100 rds myself.


Thanks Storm. I need to take two pair of Wrangler slacks back to Meijer for a refund. May just use that for more ammo. I am down to just over 100 rounds on hand and have another handgun class planned to attend on 10/31.
No. 95     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 17, 2010 at 7:47 PM     
I also played with the electronic gun safe today. The firearm can be accessed very quickly from the thing. But is on the small side and quite a costly thing to secure just one gun, a magazine or two, and maybe a couple valuables.
No. 96     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 17, 2010 at 7:56 PM     
No. 97     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 17, 2010 at 7:58 PM     
That is pretty cool. All the biometrics I looked at work essentially the same but not disguised in that manner.
No. 98     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  StarrElement   Gender: F   Age: 54   on  Oct 17, 2010 at 8:05 PM     
Darrell wrote:

Something kind of unique with Walther's that I did not even experiment with until today is an internal trigger lock. The PK380 came with a tool that inserts into a recessed hole and is turned to lock or unlock the trigger. I have determined this is more than sufficient to be able to leave the handgun loaded and openly accessible.

If you lose the tool you are kind of "up the creek". Small needle nose pliers might suffice. But may not be handy in an emergency.


Darrell,
Did you gun not come with 2 recessed hole keys? Mine did - so I have one hidden in a "safe" and one on my key ring. Or, if yours didn't come with 2 keys, can you order a 2nd one from the manufacturer/

Hey guys - you and Stormchaser, been following this thread and I think it was Trinka that posted the gun I want - The Ruger LCP - the light weight one. I had heard about this gun years ago, but never looked into it. I will buy it soon.
My 357 Taurus is even too heavy for the average man - it fits in a purse, but I only carry it in my front seat (I've been a CCW permit holder for years and years) . . .

Enjoy.

p.s stealthvault looks kewl. not yet, maybe after the first of the year....
No. 99     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 17, 2010 at 8:19 PM     
Only came with one key. I had planned to order another when I ordered another magazine. Ordered the magazine and forgot to order the key. In fact, without this key or maybe a small pair of needle noise pliers, you cannot even break this gun down.

I looked at the Ruger LCP. Retailer talked me out of it. Said it was great for very small self-defense concealed carry, but otherwise not a good choice for "regular" shooting or to learn to shoot. My retailer and many articles online state many females and/or anyone with weak hands such as someone with arthritis, are opting for the Walther over any other .380.

Myself, I opted for the Walther over the Ruger due to the Walther being somewhat larger and heavier, and supposedly considered more accurate and reliable over other .380 automatics. But such depends on who's article you read. I have recently put quite a few rounds through mine with nary an issue.

But if resources were not limited and I could own several handguns, the Ruger would still be on my list for a very small concealed carry or for such as my daughter.
No. 100     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  StarrElement   Gender: F   Age: 54   on  Oct 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM     
Yes, due to nerve damage on my right side, I can't handle anything bigger than the Ruger LCP - that's why I was so excited to see that one. Now for stopping power, I leave the 357 beside my side at home though . . . .. A friend had recommended it years ago, but he is now in a vegetative state ~~~~ long story - don't ask. So I forgot about it and never bought it....
No. 101     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 18, 2010 at 9:48 PM     
Have been using my little gun safe with the electronic keypad just to get used to accessing it quickly. Just realized today, if the lights are not on, you cannot see the keypad to enter the combination. It is not lighted. This is going back for a refund. LOL.

Talked with my CCW carrying peers, they state their instructors recommended the biometric models.
No. 102     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 18, 2010 at 10:15 PM     
I have rescheduled my CCW class for Oct 31st.
No. 103     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 18, 2010 at 10:26 PM     
I can say this for sure, firing a handgun regularly requires some level of physical fitness. Time to start using one of those Shake Weights I have sold so many of.

Some peers have stated the "physical" part of the CCW classes was the tough part.
No. 104     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 18, 2010 at 11:09 PM     
Haven't heard anything about physical fitness. We didn't do any physical exercises in the Wyoming course.
No. 105     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 19, 2010 at 2:51 AM     
I am sure not all present such, but it sounds as if several of the instructors here locally include defensive and tactical maneuvers as part of the CCW class. Some peers have expressed they leave the class with sore legs and thighs from the crouching and stepping, and others say they endure sore arms and shoulders from being taught the proper way to stand, present, and hold their firearms. It is an 8 hour class and at least 4 hours of it is spent on the range.

And to the other extreme, I have heard of at least one local instructor that allows students to walk in, hand him a check, he signs their app and gives them a certificate, they leave with him providing no training what so ever.
No. 106     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  BeachBrat   Gender: F   Age: 58   on  Oct 19, 2010 at 3:47 AM     
Darrell wrote:
Time to start using one of those Shake Weights I have sold so many of.


Are they really that good? What are you selling them for?
No. 107     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 19, 2010 at 11:53 PM     
BeachBrat wrote:

Darrell wrote:
Time to start using one of those Shake Weights I have sold so many of.


Are they really that good? What are you selling them for?



Yes, they are great exercise gadgets for working out the upper body and arms. Like most other gadgets, they work if used. I have allowed a lot of local guys to try these. They can hardly do 2 minutes let alone the 6 minute workout routines as suggested.
No. 108     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 21, 2010 at 3:07 AM     
I was in error on the CPL classes here in Michigan. Supposedly 8 hours classroom time is required, and 3.5 hours on the range required. The manager at the range I visited led me to believe that only 4 hours classroom instruction is required and that range time was optional.
No. 109     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 21, 2010 at 3:21 AM     
Speaking of handgun "stopping" power or whatever one may want to call it:

One of the CPL instructors at the range is a veteran soldier and a law enforcement officer. He has had to use his handgun in action. His most recent event of having to shoot someone required emptying his magazine and hitting the assailant every shot before he was rendered no longer a threat. The assailant lived. Is now in prison, but alive despite how many times he was shot.

In a recent local attempted armed car hijacking, again the assailant was hit with every shot from the defendant’s magazine. The assailant did die, but still shot the defendant 3 times despite his own injuries. Both kept shooting after being shot.
No. 110     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 22, 2010 at 2:41 PM     
Darrell wrote:

Stormchaser wrote:

Darrell, Meijer has a $3/box off 50rds Winchester discount this week (starting today - Sunday). I just bought 100 rds myself.


Thanks Storm. I need to take two pair of Wrangler slacks back to Meijer for a refund. May just use that for more ammo. I am down to just over 100 rounds on hand and have another handgun class planned to attend on 10/31.



Turned out, even on sale, Meijer was still higher priced than other stores around town. Here locally, Meijer is $3-$5 higher per 50 rounds than such as Dunhams, Gander Mountain, or Wal-Mart.
No. 111     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 22, 2010 at 5:46 PM     
I think the sale price was $16.99 per box of 50 rds. 380. That's pretty good for here.
No. 112     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 22, 2010 at 7:21 PM     
The regular price here at Meijer is $19.99 per 50, but at most other places around here the regular price is about $17.00 or less per 50. I paid $15.99 regular price for my last 50 of Winchesters prior to looking at Meijer. I was surprised to find Meijer higher priced.
No. 113     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 23, 2010 at 11:32 AM     
I have learned that many concealed carry courses are using a couple books as text books or at least as a text reference for their classes.

The most popular seems to be "The Concealed Handgun Manual" by Chris Bird. Another, which I would think would only be popular for Michigan but supposedly in short supply wherever, is "A Common Sense Guide to Michigan Gun Laws" by M. Carol and Daniel Bambery. I have not attended a formal concealed carry course, but I own both books and they are good.

Many classes also show a DVD supposedly from the NRA, but I have not run this down yet.
No. 114     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 24, 2010 at 8:08 PM     
I have located several NRA promoted handgun training videos. Not sure which one the CPL class uses, but I ordered their "BASICS OF PISTOL SHOOTING" DVD today.
No. 115     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 24, 2010 at 8:09 PM     
Renewed my NRA membership today.
No. 116     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 26, 2010 at 10:31 PM     
Purchased more ammo at Dunhams yesterday. Just as expensive there as at Meijer, but I purchased 50 rounds just to try it. It is a different brand than I have been using. Also picked up another 200 rounds of Winchester at Wal-Mart today. Have about 500 rounds on hand now.

Also while at Dunhams I purchased a new 14 gun firearm storage safe.
No. 117     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 29, 2010 at 7:39 PM     
Done in about a 100 rounds today. Getting ready for class in the AM.

Purchased another 100 rounds this evening at Wal-Mart. For about 7-10 days 380 auto did get hard to find. But all stores seemed to have plenty today except K-mart.
No. 118     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 29, 2010 at 9:36 PM     
My NRA DVD arrived today. Going to watch it this evening. Will most likely be a great intro to tomorrow morning's class.
No. 119     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Fusion   Gender: M   Age: 38   on  Oct 30, 2010 at 3:18 AM     
I have a ruger P95. It was inexpensive, but has been reliable.
No. 120     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  ALifer932   Gender: F   Age: 45   on  Oct 30, 2010 at 1:09 PM     
I never thought about having a gun until I began living alone in the country. I took a class last spring that taught legal, safety and practical aspects of owning a handgun. I paid more money going through an AACFI course but I was impressed with their professionialism specially after hearing a friend tell me about his experince taking a class with a noncertified instructor that only focused on teaching the mechanics of owning a gun.
No. 121     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 30, 2010 at 4:55 PM     
Survived my Concealed Pistol License class today. As I was informed previously by others it would be, this was a very demanding and stressful class mentally and physically. I had a lot of fun and survived, but guys much younger than myself appeared to be about to "crash and burn". But to the best of my knowledge, only one student was informed they needed to return and spend more time on the tactical range, and I noticed one student appeared to be back retaking the written exam while the rest of us performed the tactical exercises. The assistant spent one on one time with the stragglers and those simply not getting it until they did. The instructors had a goal all would pass.

The course was taught by a certified NRA instructor and an assistant instructor presenting handgun self-defense as specified by the "NRA Personal Protection In The Home Course" and also complying with requirements of Michigan law for the Concealed Pistol License. In fact, for attending just this one course I received individual certificates for completing two classes in pistol safety training certified by the NRA, Michigan law, and/or National and state firearms training organizations. These guys add their own twist to the course going above and beyond the requirements of the NRA and the State of Michigan. The primary instructor is a current local law enforcement officer, owns a firearms self-defense instruction business, and is a former military ranger. He was tough.

First 4+ hours of the class was pretty much classroom time with an emphasis on handgun safety, laws, liability, storage of a firearm, mental preparedness, avoiding criminal attack and controlling a violent confrontation, grip, stance, position, types of handguns, ammunition, etc. The 3+ hours on the tactical range seemed liked a military boot camp. They did their best to simulate the stress that one may experience in real life situations. After some basic close quarters firearms self-defense training, the class switched gears to constant moving and firing, dropping an empty mag on the run, reloading another mag, and continuing to fire in a variety of scenarios while at the same time someone was yelling directions at you with a bullhorn and doing their best to get under your skin and make you crumble.

The course required passing a written exam and putting in a minimum of 3 hours on the tactical range. By the end of day I was really feeling this one, mentally and physically. Been a while since I had faced anything so challenging, yet tremendous fun at the same time.
No. 122     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 30, 2010 at 11:11 PM     
BTW - I was the only one in the class that showed up with a 380 that was not told to buy a "better" handgun at the end of the day. The instructor likes Walthers. One guy even brought a Sigma 22 cal. Only negative comment I heard the instructor make on it was that this particular 22 was a target only gun.

Although maybe fine for basic firearm self-defense, the popular little 380 Bersas and Rugers did not make the grade when it came to the tactical shooting exercises. Seemed to be too small in the hand of most users when the action became intense and fine motor skills naturally degrade as they automatically do in such situations.

The mental and physical dynamics one experiences was something I had not considered when selecting my handgun. After today's experience I find myself desiring something larger for self-defense.

Even though the little Walther performed well, it quickly seemed to shrink in the hand when the action became "hot and heavy". Something larger with a more "positive" feel would have been welcome during the tactical exercises. Small frame handguns are simply too small physically to conveniently allow for all of what has been found to be "best practices" in the handgun self-defense arena.
No. 123     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 31, 2010 at 12:20 PM     
I consider myself in very good physical shape, but after yesterday's class, I have digits and muscles sore I did not know I had.

With a good night's sleep, the little Walther does look and feel back to normal size. But the experience does have me considering a larger handgun much sooner than I anticipated.
No. 124     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 31, 2010 at 1:42 PM     
The magazine clips for my Bersa are elongated to allow for an extra finger to grip, which makes it fine, IMHO. I also had people tell me, though, that my hands were big enough that I should have a larger handgun. I actually do want one, but I like the Bersa sufficiently enough that it will be for me, as many police apparently, a backup gun.

Eventually I could see it in a leg holster on me.
No. 125     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 31, 2010 at 7:07 PM     
I love my little Walther, but do feel it is a little on the small side. Really, the only personal drawback for myself was acting the slide as taught for the tactical exercises. Even with the Walther slide being considerably larger than found on many other 380s, my hand still found the slide too small to easily grip as taught as being the most effective and fastest manner to reload and become "hot".

Another thing I noticed all day long, and the instructor finally mentioned and pointed this out in the summary after our last exercise, those with the smaller frame handguns were missing the target silhouettes a lot. This class taught not to take time to use sights. Just pull up and shoot. This appeared fairly easy from 7-21 feet and in all lighting conditions for all but the small frame handgun users. They had to be almost on top of the target to consistently hit it. We used full body size targets and those with small frame handguns were outside the silhouette a lot, especially in the low light exercises.

Even though we were critiqued individually, we were assigned a student partner and as a pair instructed to shoot at the same target number all day, and were to shoot at least 100 rounds each. My partner and I only missed the silhouette 6 times total as a pair. My partner was an ex-military MP and was considerably familiar with handgun use already. I am really a newbie, but have had some solid training before time to develop bad habits.
No. 126     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Oct 31, 2010 at 10:02 PM     
BTW - The instructor of my class turned out to be the officer that had shot the assailant I posted of previously. He shared the story in class. Hit the guy 7 times from the upper thigh to the top of his shoulder with a 45. The guy was dead on the scene but revived twice and lived.

The guy had robbed a convenience store just down the road from me for money to pay parking tickets. Police were called. A car chase ensued, with my instructor being the 2nd officer to catch up with the guy after he rolled his vehicle. The guy turned on the officer armed with a handgun despite being ordered several times to lie down.
No. 127     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  PlowMan   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 1, 2010 at 12:59 AM     
In Canada a concealed weapon is against the law.
That is why Limburger cheese can't be placed in a shopping bag.

No really. The ownership of pistols and revolvers is highly regulated.
They are classed as restricted weapons and can only be owned with a special permit and can only be transported from point of purchase to home or from home to a shooting range, and then, only with a specific one use permit.

They can not be carried for personal protection by anyone other then the police.

Just a bit of trivia, thought you all might find interesting.
No. 128     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Nov 1, 2010 at 1:13 PM     
About Canada, that is not surprising. The more socialist a country is, the more restrictive gun laws. I'm not trying to diss Canada, but that's just the way things work (as a matter of fact, Canada is scoring higher in my overall viewpoint than the USA at the moment).

True enough, the USA is passing Canada in socialism in some ways, but that is much more recent and the US has a long history of gun ownership and rights that the socialists have had a rougher time negating, though they keep picking away at them.
No. 129     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 2, 2010 at 12:01 AM     
http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/2010/11/01/front-sights-monday-blog-why-we-train-from-the-holster/#video

Coincidentally we were taught in my class just this past Saturday that an experienced knife wielding assailant as far away as 21 feet, could be on top of most of us and inflicting damage with his knife before most of us could draw a concealed weapon and get the sight on him, let alone fire. The reason for training to fire without using sights. I did not agree with such training prior to Saturday.

In the above video, the assailant is much closer than 21 feet.

I have had knives pulled on me at least twice at much closer than 21 feet.
No. 130     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 3, 2010 at 10:48 AM     
I looked into buying some ammo bulk, 1000 round lots at $280 each. It was a brand I had never heard of.

Ten 100 round boxes of Winchester are only about $32 more at Wal-mart. So I decided not to order the bulk lot and just continue to get it at Wal-mart for now.
No. 131     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  jadefox   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Nov 3, 2010 at 12:30 PM     
PlowMan wrote:

In Canada a concealed weapon is against the law.
That is why Limburger cheese can't be placed in a shopping bag.

No really. The ownership of pistols and revolvers is highly regulated.
They are classed as restricted weapons and can only be owned with a special permit and can only be transported from point of purchase to home or from home to a shooting range, and then, only with a specific one use permit.

They can not be carried for personal protection by anyone other then the police.

Just a bit of trivia, thought you all might find interesting.


Wasn't that legislation passed because of the mass shooting by an engineering student in Montreal, Quebec in 1989 who turned a gun on a classroom of female engineering students. Those poor people didn't see him coming!

Canada is much safer to live than the United States in terms of gun safety. Isn't that why? :unsure:
No. 132     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 5, 2010 at 1:50 AM     
I was looking at some NRA publications this week presenting some information supported with data from the FBI. Supposedly a violent crime is committed here in the USA every 19 seconds.

The information was not necessarily promoting gun use, but that individuals need to become more aware of what is going on around them and become pro-active in educating themselves to protect themselves and loved ones. Whether it be with weapons or by other means. "Refuse to be a Victim" was the idea being promoted. In fact, I am considering being the host and an instructor for such an NRA supported program in this area.
No. 133     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 5, 2010 at 7:05 PM     
Does anyone have any experience with firearm's training such as at Gunsite Academy, Thunder Ranch, or Front Sight Institute?

I have read good things about all 3 from posters on blogs that have attended training at one or more, but I still encounter a considerable amount of negative comments about Front Sight. But when those posters are directly questioned, they have no first hand experience. Only commenting on what they read somewhere, but providing an opinion as if it was their own first hand experience. Posters that have actually attended Front Sight, have nothing but good to say as far as the quality of training and what is taught.

Any way, the economy has apparently had an impact on such businesses, despite conflicting recent articles that say Obama has provided the gun industry a boost. Front Sight is offering foreclosed lifetime memberships for less than $2000 that supposedly cost original owners up to in the neighborhood of $100000. The original buyers are not making their payments despite Front Sight supposedly offering them assistance and discounts to keep their memberships. Seems many buyers kept their "bonus gifts" to join and then walked on making the payments.

One class at any of the 3 training facilities I listed typically cost $1500 to $2000.
No. 134     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 5, 2010 at 7:14 PM     
jadefoxx99299 wrote:

Canada is much safer to live than the United States in terms of gun safety. Isn't that why? :unsure:



Guess I would have to see some stats to support that. I do not feel safe when visiting Canada. I have also read that Canada is a primary access point for terrorists entering the US.
No. 135     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  jadefox   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Nov 5, 2010 at 8:18 PM     
Darrell wrote:

jadefoxx99299 wrote:

Canada is much safer to live than the United States in terms of gun safety. Isn't that why? :unsure:



Guess I would have to see some stats to support that. I do not feel safe when visiting Canada. I have also read that Canada is a primary access point for terrorists entering the US.


It's interesting that the largest group of immigrants to Canada next to Americans each year is Iranians. Approximately a little over 70,000 Iranians immigrate to Canada every year, and is just slightly less than the number of Americans who move there. I find that number incredibly high for such a small country!

Of course not all Iranians leaving Iran are or ever will be terrorists. But the country itself is a breeding ground for this activity so it does beg the question of who are getting through for immigration. We let them in to America as well, but I don't think it's as high a number.

I felt pretty safe when visiting Vancouver two years in a row. There was a guy following me around the Skytrain when I was there in September because I gave him $5 after his telling me a hard luck story, and I bought it. My guest laughed and said, don't you know that was all a ruse? He goes around here all day long saying the same thing over just so some poor soul like you will have pity on him. Ah woe is me.

Fortunately for my companion and myself, we were not mugged and continued on our sight seeing.
No. 136     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  pennsenator46   Gender: M   Age: 60   on  Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM     
jadefoxx99299 wrote:.........Canada is much safer to live than the United States in terms of gun safety..........


I don't know the violent crime stats for Canada. However gun safety is not high if people don't get gun training and familiarization. Most accidents come from inexperienced or untrained dumb behavior not hardware.

No. 137     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  pennsenator46   Gender: M   Age: 60   on  Nov 5, 2010 at 9:13 PM     
Darrel I wouldn't be too upset about your .380 and "knock down" power. You don't get much summer but consealing a .380 is a lot easier in shorts and tee than anything larger. Yes a drug crazed killer is going to keep at it when shot, but the average bad guy isn't expecting the victum to be armed and will take to "flight" response. You read the "Armed Citizen" articles in the American Rifleman Magazine and you'll confirm that assumption.

Just for pure grace and shootability I like this one.



It is a accurized Colt 1911, Government Model, circa 1962. Pleasure to shoot and a good target gun. I won a postal match once with it and a $15 Gander Mountain gift card.
No. 138     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 5, 2010 at 11:42 PM     
That is a nice looking handgun there penn. I always hear positive comments made on the 1911s.

I was reading some literature this past week from the NRA and they present some data that essentially supports regardless of caliber, any assailant has the potential to keep coming if not hit in the head or thoracic area, or at least several times wherever hit until down. That what we see on TV and in movies is very misleading as to what happens to someone in real life when shot. Many may not even realize they have been shot, at least for long enough to still remain a threat.

You are correct. Many "perps" are not expecting any resistance at all; let alone for you to also be armed and know how to use it.
No. 139     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 6, 2010 at 11:45 AM     
Here is one of the discounted memberships that Front Sight is currently offering. I am told that Front Sight regularly makes such offers, but I have been following them for a couple years and have never seen the Diamond membership discounted. I have seen them offer a two for $99,800 deal, but never a price that is only a fraction of original fee.

Front Site Firearms Training Institute is currently offering foreclosed Lifetime Diamond memberships for $1995. The memberships cost the original owners up to $99,800. At $1995 it does not include 7 gifts the original owner received, but does include rights to attend 50+ courses and any future new courses for free of charge as many time as one desires. Members also enjoy a 40% discount at Front Sight's Pro Shop, Armory, and Gunsmith(some say this is worth the $1995 alone to them), guaranteed placement in courses with two weeks advance enrollment, invitation to annual July 4th Lifetime Members’ Reunion Celebration, name etched in First Family Monument, password to access exclusive and restricted First Family areas of web site and e-mail forum, First Family Card and First Family Hat, etc...

The following is what I am most interested. I would like to attend at least 1-2 courses annually:

Handgun Courses:
2 Day Defensive Handgun
4 Day Defensive Handgun
1 Day 30 State Concealed Weapon Permit
5 Day Armed Citizen Corps™
2 Day Handgun Skill Builder
2 Day Handgun Skill Builder (Night)
2 Day Advanced Tactical Handgun
2 Day Advanced Tactical Handgun (Night)
4 Day Handgun Combat Master Prep®
2 Day Defensive Handgun (Night)
4 Day Advanced Integrated Handgun

Shotgun Courses:
2 Day Tactical Shotgun
4 Day Tactical Shotgun
2 Day Shotgun Skill Builder
2 Day Shotgun Skill Builder (Night)
4 Day Advanced Tactical Shotgun
2 Day Tactical Shotgun (Night)

Rifle Courses:
2 Day Practical Rifle
4 Day Practical Rifle
2 Day Rifle Skill Builder
2 Day Rifle Skill Builder (Night)
4 Day Precision Rifle 1
4 Day Advanced Practical Rifle
2 Day Practical Rifle (Night)
4 Day Precision Rifle 2

Auto Weapons Courses:
2 Day Uzi Submachine Gun
4 Day Uzi Submachine Gun
4 Day Select Fire M16
2 Day Select Fire M16

Special Courses:
2 Day Tactical Scenarios (Combined Handgun, Shotgun, and Rifle)
4 Day Four Weapon Tactical
4 Day Four Weapons Combat Master Prep®

Armorer Courses:
1 Day Armorer's Course - 1911 Pistol
1 Day Armorer's Course - Glock Pistol
1 Day Armorer's Course - Springfield XD Pistol
1 Day Armorer's Course - AR15 Rifle

Instructor Development Courses:
4-Day Front Sight Instructor Development
2-Day Front Sight Instructor Development for First Family Members and Returning Students

Martial Arts Courses:
2 Day Empty Hand Defense
4 Day Advanced Martial Arts
2 Day Edged Weapons

Family Safe Forever™ Courses:
2 Day Children's Safety
2 Day Youth Safety
2 Day Empty Hand Defense
2 Day Edged Weapons
4 Day Children's and Youth Achievement Camp

Rope, Rappel & Climbing Classes:
2 Day Rope, Rappel, and Climb
4 Day Rope, Rappel, and Climb

Front Sight's website currently list there is also a Defensive Driving course.

http://www.frontsight.com/Oct2010.asp

No. 140     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 6, 2010 at 4:26 PM     
It dawned on me today that I first heard about Front Sight here on MC via a post made by outdoorman.
No. 141     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 7, 2010 at 1:47 AM     
Received a brand new NRA cap in the mail today. Apparently a membership renewal gift. I do not recall receiving any gift when I first joined.
No. 142     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 7, 2010 at 1:51 AM     
Well, I have come full circle. All the way back to a Springfield XD being my preferred choice as it was when I initiated this thread.
No. 143     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 7, 2010 at 2:05 AM     
Stormchaser wrote:

I keep my gun loaded, next to the bed. If that sounds a little wild to anyone, realize that many gun-owners recommend that, and it makes sense when you think about it.




Although not actually loaded, I have to insert the loaded magazine; I have developed a habit of sleeping with my handgun nearby. I also rarely go out the door without the thing anymore.

I may of at one time thought that a little wild or crazy, but I have decided if one is willing to carry, it needs to become a way of life and second nature to use the thing if required.
No. 144     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 9, 2010 at 8:54 PM     
Well, good or bad, I did it. I am now a lifetime First Family Diamond member of Front Sight. All the research I did indicates if I only ever make it out there for one or two classes in my life, I will have gotten my money's worth. Every thing I stumbled across by those who have actually been there, rave about the firearm's training and the valuable experience and skills they walk away with. They may have a list of complaints such as the bathrooms were not completed, no place to eat on site, no place to stay overnight on site, but at a minimum, if they attended nothing more than a 2-4 day handgun class, they say the classroom sessions alone were worth more than the cost of the entire class.

All my research indicates I would be hard pressed to find such training and experience at such an affordable cost without joining a para military group, getting into law enforcement, or the military. Not likely at my age.
No. 145     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 11, 2010 at 1:47 PM     
I have heard several say that once a "perp" realizes his victim is armed he will flee or at least stop once some injury has been inflicted to them. But firearms and self-defense experts say differently. Actual recorded incidents indicate that once the criminal has made up his mind to fight, he is 110% committed to inflicting maximum damage to his opponents, as quickly as possible with no regard for their own well being. Such action most always beats reaction and once initiated overwhelms those who have not mentally prepared themselves for mortal combat.

Even the NRA publically states we as individuals must develop a "never give up" mindset. Most incidents involving firearms will happen quickly and be a "life or death" situation. The NRA advises you do not just fire 1 shot and hope the "perp" will flee or not shoot back, you fire at least 2 or more shots until the "perp" is definitely no longer a threat.

With some "perps" it may only require 1 shot or just a show of willing to defend, but past incidents indicate that once set in motion, many if not most "perps" already have the mindset they are in a fight for their life. And will continue to fight until you are no longer a threat regardless if they have been injured. It is the instinct to survive in play. There will be no time to reason out what one may or may not do.
No. 146     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 11, 2010 at 11:35 PM     
Ordered some snap caps today for dry fire practice/training. I purchased a DVD from Gunsite designed for dry fire practice. Different target images of "perps" are presented on your TV screen. Pretty cool.

Would be even cooler if there was some kind of attachment for your handgun to use with like an Xbox, PS3, or Wii that sensed when you actually pull the trigger and where aiming. There may be something out there.

Dry fire practice is highly recommended for developing your concealed carry techniques, trigger control, and markmanship skills. If you do this, make sure your handgun is not really loaded.
No. 147     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 12, 2010 at 1:19 AM     
Storm/Penn - Anyone else for that matter, do you guys currently carry concealed? If so, any holster type preference?
No. 148     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Brian   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Nov 13, 2010 at 11:33 AM     
I have a conceal permit but havne't felt the need to carry a gun yet. Not saying that any of you are gun nuts but I've met some and think to myself that they probably shouldn't be within 100 feet of a gun.

I was thinking of shooting at the range around here. I'm wondering though, what is the point of having a gun when you are going to be arrested if you have to use it. Also, if all of our rights are meant in just the context of relations with the government why would we need a gun then? Shooting at any government authority let alone a postman is going to get you in a hell of a lot of trouble. What's the point?
No. 149     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 13, 2010 at 3:39 PM     
I am a 3 time victim of attempted assaults with a weapon. Twice with a knife and once with a gun. FBI statistics indicate that here in the US someone is a victim of a violent crime every 19 seconds or less. Seems I read just this week, and I need to confirm this, that every 19 second stat equates to 1 in 4 has experienced a violent crime committed against themselves or a loved one.

If you have to use it, being arrested or at least detained until all the facts are investigated is probably a given. Goes with the territory.

The simple point, the 2nd Amendment grants us the right to carry.
No. 150     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 13, 2010 at 3:42 PM     
Almost forgot, even had an arrow shot at me once. LOL.
No. 151     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Brian   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Nov 13, 2010 at 4:20 PM     
Darrell wrote:

I am a 3 time victim of attempted assaults with a weapon. Twice with a knife and once with a gun. FBI statistics indicate that here in the US someone is a victim of a violent crime every 19 seconds or less. Seems I read just this week, and I need to confirm this, that every 19 second stat equates to 1 in 4 has experienced a violent crime committed against themselves or a loved one.

If you have to use it, you should be arrested until all the facts are investigated. That is an accepted given. Having the right to carry does not mean we should be able to use it whenever with no questions asked as to why.

The simple point, the 2nd Amendment grants us the right.


I agree with you. But then if you have to be arrested do you REALLY have the right?

As or the 2nd Amendment granting us the right, I agree with that as well. I did not say that it didn't. But the rights that we enjoy are to protect us from government infringement in our lives. Therefore one can infer that the right to bear arms only applies to protection from the government. and in this day and age if you use a gun against the government you're in a world of hell. So I ask again, what's the point?

Sorry you had an arrow shot at you. lol
No. 152     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 13, 2010 at 9:36 PM     
Shot up the 50 rounds of Federal I had yesterday. Had the little Walther malfunctioning with "double feeds" before emptying the first mag. Spent cartridge remained in the barrel after every 2-4 shots. Not good. Changed over to a box of Winchesters and problem went away.
No. 153     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 14, 2010 at 3:09 AM     
Front Site has a handgun and training combined offer that looks tempting:

https://www.frontsight.com/free-gun.asp?affiliate_pro_tracking_id=717:1:US
No. 154     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Brian   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Nov 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM     
I believe I asked valid questions. Could I rationally presume then that nobody has the answers?
No. 155     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 15, 2010 at 1:01 PM     
http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/2010/11/15/front-sights-monday-blog-you-could-be-this-couple/#video


I have some mixed feelings over the manner in which the couple intervened in this, but I was not there, and the authorities appear to support what they did.
No. 156     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 15, 2010 at 1:28 PM     
You know, I am learning one almost requires a whole new wardrobe to carry concealed and still appear "fashionable", "trendy", whatever. I am leaning towards the 5.11 and 24-7 "look". But I certainly do not want to look like an overage Boy Scout like some do at the range. Although their wear may be functional for their lifestyle or line of employment, not my "cup of tea" for every day wear. Having lost 15 pounds does make more room for inconspicuous concealed carry.
No. 157     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 18, 2010 at 12:01 AM     
The snap caps are great. Mine are A-Zoom. I ordered another set to have enough to conveniently practice mag "swap outs" in addition to simple dry firing.
No. 158     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 18, 2010 at 12:14 AM     
Seems most handgun users inform me that magazine capacity is not a real concern. But I have read about enough incidents recently were as firing multiple rounds was required to eliminate the "threat" with many stating they emptied their magazine. Gives me cause to ponder.

Just today seen the news video of an incident that happened in a convenience/liquor store that I think was in Englewood, Colorado. At least 10 rounds were fired before one of the assailants dropped and the other ran off.
No. 159     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 20, 2010 at 8:43 PM     
The following I copied and pasted from an email sent to me from the NRA this week. The NRA asks that we as citizens support requestiing President Obama to withdraw the nomination:

"The NRA strongly opposes President Obama’s nomination of Andrew Traver as director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE). Traver has been deeply aligned with gun control advocates and anti-gun activities. This makes him the wrong choice to lead an enforcement agency that has almost exclusive oversight and control over the firearms industry, its retailers and consumers. Further, an important nomination such as BATFE director should not be made as a “recess appointment,” in order to circumvent consent by the American people through their duly elected U.S. Senators.

Traver served as an advisor to the International Association for Chiefs of Police’s (IACP) “Gun Violence Reduction Project,” a “partnership” with the Joyce Foundation. Both IACP and the Joyce Foundation are names synonymous with promoting a variety of gun control schemes at the federal and state levels. Most of the individuals involved in this project were prominent gun control activists and lobbyists."
No. 160     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 56   on  Nov 20, 2010 at 11:03 PM     
Do you utilize a shooter's log? Such as logging training, sessions at the range, cleaning, rounds fired, etc.?

I have read in publications that someone that carries concealed should log their training and practice. Supposedly could come into play if you are required to justify use of your firearm in an incident and/or to defend yourself against liability.

Before even reading such, from day one I have logged my handgun training and practice. At the moment, I simply list it on a yellow pad including at least date and number of rounds fired. If the training is formal or covers something specific I will also note that. Plan to migrate this to word or excel before it becomes too lengthy.

I have not been doing so, but I may start logging "cleaning", even though it typically follows any session of shooting by default. Have also read it is good to log rounds fired simply for reasons of scheduling routine maintenance and repair.
No. 161     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Jan 16, 2011 at 8:51 PM     
A local female on her first day on the job at a local convenience store pulled her handgun, shot, and killed a supposed assailant. He entered the store through the drive-thru window. I do not yet know the details, but sounds as if he was unarmed, but she feared for her safety/life and acted. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Supposedly the guy does have several priors involving theft and assault.
No. 162     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Jan 16, 2011 at 8:53 PM     
Darrell wrote:

A local female on her first day on the job at a local convenience store pulled her handgun, shot, and killed a supposed assailant. He entered the store through the drive-thru window. I do not yet know the details, but sounds as if he was unarmed, but she feared for her safety/life and acted. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Supposedly the guy does have several priors involving theft and assault.


She should be in the clear, esp. if there was a video, but who knows in this crazy gun-hating environment in much of the US?
No. 163     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Brian   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jan 16, 2011 at 8:58 PM     
Darrell wrote:

A local female on her first day on the job at a local convenience store pulled her handgun, shot, and killed a supposed assailant. He entered the store through the drive-thru window. I do not yet know the details, but sounds as if he was unarmed, but she feared for her safety/life and acted. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Supposedly the guy does have several priors involving theft and assault.


I suspect she's probably in for a world of trouble. If she didn't see any type of weapon in the guy's hand let alone a gun, she may be charged with murder or at least manslaughter. I don't know the law there but I think in Indiana you will be arrested until everything gets sorted out. I don't think just "fearing for your life" is a valid defence if you didn't even see a weapon in the criminal's hand.

The fact that the guy had several priors though should be irrelevant as the girl would not have known that. Are you really allowed to pack heat on the job though? Interesting case.
No. 164     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Jan 16, 2011 at 9:27 PM     
Brian wrote:

Are you really allowed to pack heat on the job though? Interesting case.



There is no law against it. Left up to the employer and their conditions and rules of employment. My employer does not allow firearms on the premises, but a local law enforcement officer told me to my face that in my line of employment and where I work and with the hours I work, he would break the rule and be armed anyway.
No. 165     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Brian   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jan 16, 2011 at 9:55 PM     
Darrell wrote:

Brian wrote:

Are you really allowed to pack heat on the job though? Interesting case.



There is no law against it. Left up to the employer and their conditions and rules of employment. My employer does not allow firearms on the premises, but a local law enforcement officer told me to my face that in my line of employment and where I work and with the hours I work, he would break the rule and be armed anyway.


I see.

About breaking the rule though, that may or may not be a good thing. I wouldn't always trust what law enforcemnt officers say either, from my experience of what I've heard them tell people in my presence.
No. 166     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Brian   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jan 16, 2011 at 10:00 PM     
Stormchaser wrote:

Darrell wrote:

A local female on her first day on the job at a local convenience store pulled her handgun, shot, and killed a supposed assailant. He entered the store through the drive-thru window. I do not yet know the details, but sounds as if he was unarmed, but she feared for her safety/life and acted. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Supposedly the guy does have several priors involving theft and assault.


She should be in the clear, esp. if there was a video, but who knows in this crazy gun-hating environment in much of the US?


I disagree. I think the video would make things even worse for her...if it shows that the guy had no weapon in his hands. Employees are always taught to do what the criminal demands, hand over the money, etc. Shooting and killing the person, especially if you don't even know if they have a weapon or not, is not generally recommended.

I would be surprised if she doesn't get into any trouble at all.

What do you mean by crazy gun-hating environment though? I'm all for protecting yourself if you know someone has a weapon but I don't think anyone who is against guns has ever used one to kill anybody. Yet a crazy guy killed people with a gun just last week.
No. 167     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Jan 16, 2011 at 10:28 PM     
Brian wrote:

Stormchaser wrote:

Darrell wrote:

A local female on her first day on the job at a local convenience store pulled her handgun, shot, and killed a supposed assailant. He entered the store through the drive-thru window. I do not yet know the details, but sounds as if he was unarmed, but she feared for her safety/life and acted. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Supposedly the guy does have several priors involving theft and assault.


She should be in the clear, esp. if there was a video, but who knows in this crazy gun-hating environment in much of the US?


--- Employees are always taught to do what the criminal demands, hand over the money, etc..



I cannot claim it is such across the board, but recent self-defense and survival training classes are teaching that odds are, doing what an armed criminal demands is going to get you dead most likely anyway. Therefore, much training is now sharing how to take control and become the aggressor, not to give in and become a victim.
No. 168     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Brian   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jan 17, 2011 at 12:24 PM     
Darrell wrote:

Brian wrote:

Stormchaser wrote:

Darrell wrote:

A local female on her first day on the job at a local convenience store pulled her handgun, shot, and killed a supposed assailant. He entered the store through the drive-thru window. I do not yet know the details, but sounds as if he was unarmed, but she feared for her safety/life and acted. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Supposedly the guy does have several priors involving theft and assault.


She should be in the clear, esp. if there was a video, but who knows in this crazy gun-hating environment in much of the US?


--- Employees are always taught to do what the criminal demands, hand over the money, etc..



I cannot claim it is such across the board, but recent self-defense and survival training classes are teaching that odds are, doing what an armed criminal demands is going to get you dead most likely anyway. Therefore, much training is now sharing how to take control and become the aggressor, not to give in and become a victim.


You could be right but it could also be the case that self-defense training schools are giving this advice so they can get your money. I don't know how many store employees are killed when doing what the criminal wants them too but I do know that most stores will advise you to do what the criminal wants. Your life is not worth 20 dollars.
No. 169     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Jan 23, 2011 at 4:35 PM     
LOL. I have been so busy I am just now getting an opportunity to really check out some of my Christmas gifts. Two different families gave me a box of 100 rounds of 380.
No. 170     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Jimmy98   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Jan 23, 2011 at 9:03 PM     
Highly reccommend the Walther PP or PP-K series. It's cp,[act. [ptemt. highly conceilable and has almost the knock-down of a .45 ACP. I've carried one for years and wouldnt change for the world. They don't jam, don't ross-feed and will 'eat' anything in the right caliber. Very similar to the Walther P-390 shown below but not as heavy and not as much recoil... therefore more accuracy.
No. 171     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Jan 23, 2011 at 10:58 PM     
I love my little Walther PK380, but I have come full circle back to looking at purchasing a Springfield XD. My first instincts or inclinations are most often my best.
No. 172     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Kari   Gender: F   Age: 60   on  Jan 24, 2011 at 10:41 AM     
I plan on learning to fire one of Dan's retired service weapons. A glock of some sort. I will let you know if I still have all my toes. But up there in the sierra foothills I want to know how to use it. :popcorn:
No. 173     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Feb 6, 2011 at 10:23 PM     
A guy unlocked my door and walked right in yesterday afternoon. I was sitting in my living room when I heard the familiar sound of the deadbolt being unlocked on the primary entry door downstairs. At first thought it was my daughter unexpectedly showing up and I almost paid no mind. But not expecting her, I was prompted to go to the top of the stairs and look anyway. I looked down to see a guy in my foyer looking at some boxes I left at the bottom of the stairs. My handgun was laying just to my left at the top of the stairs and at that moment I did not surmise a need to be grabbing it. It was a tall slim bearded guy with keys in hand, a quilted blue jacket, and stocking cap. I calmly said "Hello". Surprised he looked up, he said "Hey man, I must be in the wrong place, but the key opened it right up" and he quickly went back out the door. I went down and looked out the door but he was quickly gone. I immediately called the rental office to see if they had maybe given a key to a maintenance man or contractor to my place in error. They replied "no" and that they had no such folks on site at the moment. Locks are being changed in the morning.
No. 174     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Annie53   Gender: F   Age: 59   on  Feb 6, 2011 at 10:34 PM     
Darrell wrote:

A guy unlocked my door and walked right in yesterday afternoon. I was sitting in my living room when I heard the familiar sound of the deadbolt being unlocked on the primary entry door downstairs. At first thought it was my daughter unexpectedly showing up and I almost paid no mind. But not expecting her, I was prompted to go to the top of the stairs and look anyway. I looked down to see a guy in my foyer looking at some boxes I left at the bottom of the stairs. My handgun was laying just to my left at the top of the stairs and at that moment I did not surmise a need to be grabbing it. It was a tall slim bearded guy with keys in hand, a quilted blue jacket, and stocking cap. I calmly said "Hello". Surprised he looked up, he said "Hey man, I must be in the wrong place, but the key opened it right up" and he quickly went back out the door. I went down and looked out the door but he was quickly gone. I immediately called the rental office to see if they had maybe given a key to a maintenance man or contractor to my place in error. They replied "no" and that they had no such folks on site at the moment. Locks are being changed in the morning.


Wow!!! Scary.
No. 175     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Nonlie1894   Gender: M   Age: 22   on  Feb 6, 2011 at 10:38 PM     
Darrell wrote:

A guy unlocked my door and walked right in yesterday afternoon. I was sitting in my living room when I heard the familiar sound of the deadbolt being unlocked on the primary entry door downstairs. At first thought it was my daughter unexpectedly showing up and I almost paid no mind. But not expecting her, I was prompted to go to the top of the stairs and look anyway. I looked down to see a guy in my foyer looking at some boxes I left at the bottom of the stairs. My handgun was laying just to my left at the top of the stairs and at that moment I did not surmise a need to be grabbing it. It was a tall slim bearded guy with keys in hand, a quilted blue jacket, and stocking cap. I calmly said "Hello". Surprised he looked up, he said "Hey man, I must be in the wrong place, but the key opened it right up" and he quickly went back out the door. I went down and looked out the door but he was quickly gone. I immediately called the rental office to see if they had maybe given a key to a maintenance man or contractor to my place in error. They replied "no" and that they had no such folks on site at the moment. Locks are being changed in the morning.
I'm lucky enough to have my own K9 alarm system. But I would still rather have a gun on hand than let my dogs risk being hurt while attacking an intruder.
No. 176     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  jadefox   Gender: F   Age: 51   on  Feb 6, 2011 at 10:39 PM     
Annie53 wrote:

Darrell wrote:

A guy unlocked my door and walked right in yesterday afternoon. I was sitting in my living room when I heard the familiar sound of the deadbolt being unlocked on the primary entry door downstairs. At first thought it was my daughter unexpectedly showing up and I almost paid no mind. But not expecting her, I was prompted to go to the top of the stairs and look anyway. I looked down to see a guy in my foyer looking at some boxes I left at the bottom of the stairs. My handgun was laying just to my left at the top of the stairs and at that moment I did not surmise a need to be grabbing it. It was a tall slim bearded guy with keys in hand, a quilted blue jacket, and stocking cap. I calmly said "Hello". Surprised he looked up, he said "Hey man, I must be in the wrong place, but the key opened it right up" and he quickly went back out the door. I went down and looked out the door but he was quickly gone. I immediately called the rental office to see if they had maybe given a key to a maintenance man or contractor to my place in error. They replied "no" and that they had no such folks on site at the moment. Locks are being changed in the morning.


Wow!!! Scary.


Yeppers, I think I'd be sleeping with a chair propped up under the doorknob on that door downstairs; one eye open; and one hand resting on the baseball bat next to your bed!
No. 177     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Kari   Gender: F   Age: 60   on  Feb 7, 2011 at 10:53 AM     
wow Darrell. That is a bit spooky to say the least. Makes you wonder if he has some universal type key or something... or somehow you or your daughter had given your key to a valet some place , or a service dept for some auto work, or she has a room-mate where she is, and they made a copy of the house key. At any rate.. that was a bit unnerving just to read. Glad those locks are being changed. :unsure:
No. 178     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Feb 7, 2011 at 11:01 AM     
Lock changed. I was provided excuses as to what happened, but I still requested they change the lock. Supposedly, someone relocated from another building to the unit below me and had their lock moved from the old unit to the new unit rather than have all their family members get new keys. Supposedly one of the family members came to my door in error and was just as surprised as I. Per maintenance, my lock was old and had worn pins which allowed a key somewhat close to open it.
No. 179     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Feb 11, 2011 at 12:12 AM     
LOL. I was not aware WD40 will freeze just like water. No sooner than the guy that installed the lock had left, I could not get it to operate and found myself locked out. Called him back. He had originally told me the locks are soaked in oil before installing, but upon his return he stated it had been soaked in WD40 which will freeze in this cold weather. He said the lock should have been dried out before installing but in their haste to provide me service they did not dry it out thoroughly. Rather than have him remove it, I grab some gun lubricant and sprayed into the lock. Has worked like a charm ever since.
No. 180     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Feb 13, 2011 at 7:11 PM     
Since the Arizona incident, legislation has been introduced here in Michigan to lessen the restrictions on where a CPL holder can legally carry. In other words, the desire is to increase the potential that someone is nearby that is carrying if needed.
No. 181     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Luke547   Gender: M   Age: 50   on  Feb 13, 2011 at 9:26 PM     
Darrell wrote:

LOL. I was not aware WD40 will freeze just like water. No sooner than the guy that installed the lock had left, I could not get it to operate and found myself locked out. Called him back. He had originally told me the locks are soaked in oil before installing, but upon his return he stated it had been soaked in WD40 which will freeze in this cold weather. He said the lock should have been died out before installing but in their haste to provide me service they did not dry it out thoroughly. Rather than have him remove it, I grab some gun lubricant and sprayed into the lock. Has worked like a charm ever since.


It has been my experience that wd40 will thaw out frozen locks.

Unles it is too cold out in which case it will freeze them up.
No. 182     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Feb 15, 2011 at 11:13 AM     
Luke547 wrote:

Darrell wrote:

LOL. I was not aware WD40 will freeze just like water. No sooner than the guy that installed the lock had left, I could not get it to operate and found myself locked out. Called him back. He had originally told me the locks are soaked in oil before installing, but upon his return he stated it had been soaked in WD40 which will freeze in this cold weather. He said the lock should have been died out before installing but in their haste to provide me service they did not dry it out thoroughly. Rather than have him remove it, I grab some gun lubricant and sprayed into the lock. Has worked like a charm ever since.


It has been my experience that wd40 will thaw out frozen locks.

Unles it is too cold out in which case it will freeze them up.



For different reasons I have never used WD40 on my firearms. Now I have another reason. I have read that WD40 should never be used on a firearm.
No. 183     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Feb 19, 2011 at 11:39 AM     
There is an old saying "God created men (and women). Sam Colt made them equal."
No. 184     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 50   on  Feb 20, 2011 at 6:13 PM     
Texas looks to be a good state for owning a GUN...
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/southwest/view/20110220texas_poised_to_pass_bill_allowing_guns_on_campus/srvc=news&position=recent_bullet
No. 185     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Feb 20, 2011 at 10:04 PM     
insular926 wrote:

Texas looks to be a good state for owning a GUN...
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/southwest/view/20110220texas_poised_to_pass_bill_allowing_guns_on_campus/srvc=news&position=recent_bullet



What Texas is preparing to do, several other states are looking to do. Legislation has been initiated here in Michigan to also lessen the restrictions where a CPL license holder can carry. Such as on a college campus, in church, etc.

Most all should have the right to carry. The bigger issue is that one who opts to carry assumes an obligation to be skilled enough to handle the tool and mentally and physically prepared to carry, but many if not most do not really fulfill this obligation. Even though holding a license that allows them to carry. They carry as if the tool is such as a lucky rabbit's foot or a magical charm to ward off evil. I know of others were as it seems to simply only serve their ego.
No. 186     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Yochana   Gender: F   Age: 59   on  Feb 21, 2011 at 4:07 PM     
Mercy... y'all still on this subject? LOL Here in FL. we can't take one in a post office or any governmental place as far as that goes. One of my neighbors has just a home permit. others have a regular concealed weapon or firearm license to carry. I heard last it was being in the works to check for mental illness before one is able to buy a gun. The sheriff down here has been cleaning up the un licensed guns on the streets. Nothing but the blood of Jesus.... still works for me. :dance:
No. 187     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Feb 26, 2011 at 12:27 AM     
National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Bill introduced in U.S. House. The measure would allow any person with a valid state-issued concealed carry permit to carry a concealed firearm in any state that issues concealed firearm permits, or that does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms.
No. 188     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Feb 26, 2011 at 9:01 PM     
Darrell wrote:

National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Bill introduced in U.S. House. The measure would allow any person with a valid state-issued concealed carry permit to carry a concealed firearm in any state that issues concealed firearm permits, or that does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms.



I have already paid for and plan to attend a universal carry class later this year that qualifies me to obtain a concealed carry license in 30 states other than Michigan. But then again I of course would have to pay the individual license fee in each state becoming quite costly. This reciprocity bill would make such much easier and less costly.
No. 189     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 28, 2011 at 6:00 PM     
Finally. Yesterday I finally found/took the time to get my application turned in and to get fingerprinted to obtain my CPL license. I completed the classroom and hands-on training requirements almost 1 year ago. The young lady at the sheriff's office that took my fingerprints said it should arrive in about 12 weeks, but most everybody I know locally said theirs arrived in less than 3 weeks.
No. 190     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Jimmy98   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 29, 2011 at 10:48 PM     
Darrell, nothing beats the original. Go to a gunshow, pay the extra bucks and get yourself an NRA 'excellent' Colt M1911A1. You won't regret it. You'll pay for it but it's worth it. It's the safest .45 that's ever been developed. There's a thumb safety but it can't be fird unless the grip safety is depressed as you hold the weapon. You can carry it cocked and locked with a full magazine and one round in battery. The .45ACP was developed for it's one round stipping power. Anything that's big and mean enough to get up after taking a round anywhere on their body is too big and mean to deal with. Run.
No. 191     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 30, 2011 at 12:21 AM     
Jimmy98 wrote:

Darrell, nothing beats the original. Go to a gunshow, pay the extra bucks and get yourself an NRA 'excellent' Colt M1911A1. You won't regret it. You'll pay for it but it's worth it. It's the safest .45 that's ever been developed. There's a thumb safety but it can't be fird unless the grip safety is depressed as you hold the weapon. You can carry it cocked and locked with a full magazine and one round in battery. The .45ACP was developed for it's one round stipping power. Anything that's big and mean enough to get up after taking a round anywhere on their body is too big and mean to deal with. Run.



Thank you for the advice Jimmy, but I am really happy with my Walther PK380 and looking at purchasing another 380. I may also pick-up a Springfield XD in a .40. It also has the grip that must be depressed before it will fire.
No. 192     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Oct 30, 2011 at 3:07 PM     
Darrell wrote:

Almost forgot, even had an arrow shot at me once. LOL.


I've also had gals speak "fiery arrows" at me before. lol Why me though?



:popcorn:
No. 193     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Oct 30, 2011 at 3:28 PM     
Darrell wrote:

The snap caps are great. Mine are A-Zoom. I ordered another set to have enough to conveniently practice mag "swap outs" in addition to simple dry firing.


I use snap caps, but for my shotgun to practice combat & tactical loading. I've found it tedious for pistol practice and prefer an artificial training barrel from Bladetec instead.

This is also the recommended setup for gun retention workouts outside of a blue-gun. Because you have to take out your barrel, there's no fear that an accidental discharge will go off when squeezing the trigger because the firing pin will hit a plastic surface. Also, less fear of that a bullet may still be loaded in the magazine instead of a snapcap when pressing the trigger.

I find the Bladetec training barrel to be the best option for dry-fire practice like trigger resets, holster draws, and close-range gunfighting (hip & rib shooting).

http://www.blade-tech.com/Training-Barrel-pr-1018.html

No. 194     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Oct 30, 2011 at 3:37 PM     
Darrell wrote:

A local female on her first day on the job at a local convenience store pulled her handgun, shot, and killed a supposed assailant. He entered the store through the drive-thru window. I do not yet know the details, but sounds as if he was unarmed, but she feared for her safety/life and acted. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Supposedly the guy does have several priors involving theft and assault.


I would interested to know how this ends too. For most crimes & incidents, there's less inequality when it comes to judgment although there's still an expectation that women are fragile/weaker and afforded more leniency when it comes to use of force.

In my opinion, there shouldn't be because physically it only takes around 5-7 lbs of strength to pull a trigger, so training and mindset should contribute more than anything else. It's a slippery slope either way when it comes to an unarmed assailant.

No. 195     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Oct 30, 2011 at 3:49 PM     
Darrell wrote:

I cannot claim it is such across the board, but recent self-defense and survival training classes are teaching that odds are, doing what an armed criminal demands is going to get you dead most likely anyway. Therefore, much training is now sharing how to take control and become the aggressor, not to give in and become a victim.


Both are true. The expectation used to be that if you simply comply with an assailant, chances are you'll survive with no harm. More are finding out that they have been dead wrong about this because the respect for life has changed in this current society.

Because of this, many training schools are teaching their students to expect the worst, be prepared for it, and become mentally strong so that you can become the aggressor. Not only that, schools are now taking it a step further and having "force-on-force" classes where they simulate actual lethal situations to induce stress/memory, and using simulated bullets with real guns. Students are exposed to real firing, real weapons, and real situations. Probably the best classes available because lesson learned here help expose the student to real-life scenarios that include movement instead of range targets that just.....sit there.

No. 196     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Oct 30, 2011 at 3:56 PM     
Darrell wrote:
For different reasons I have never used WD40 on my firearms. Now I have another reason. I have read that WD40 should never be used on a firearm.


Didn't know that either. Luckily, I've never used it for firearms yet. Thanks.

No. 197     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Oct 30, 2011 at 4:11 PM     
Darrell wrote:
Thank you for the advice Jimmy, but I am really happy with my Walther PK380 and looking at purchasing another 380. I may also pick-up a Springfield XD in a .40. It also has the grip that must be depressed before it will fire.


I actually have one of the newer XDM 40-cal w/ a 4.5" barrel. Very solid, accurate, easy to clean, and able to customize with the built-in picatinny rail in the front. Good for a laser or light. I had to get an after market slide-stop because I'm a lefty and it's a pain to press with my left finger. Easy for a righty.

That's my field/range/home protection piece. Wanted a sub-compact for concealed carry so I began looking for others today with that were double-action, ambidextrous mag release & slide stop. Glock didn't cut it, nor did Ruger, or Taurus. Decided on the Smith & Wesson M&P 40-cal (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757955_-1_757781_757781_image) sub-compact.

Most pistols are made for righties, while few make it phenomenal for lefties or ambidextrous shooters. I'm actually ambidextrous, right-handed, but am left-hand/eye dominant when it comes to firearms.

Yeah, I'm a mess..........lol




No. 198     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 30, 2011 at 7:34 PM     
Christian_Gent wrote:

Because of this, many training schools are teaching their students to expect the worst, be prepared for it, and become mentally strong so that you can become the aggressor. Not only that, schools are now taking it a step further and having "force-on-force" classes where they simulate actual lethal situations to induce stress/memory, and using simulated bullets with real guns. Students are exposed to real firing, real weapons, and real situations. Probably the best classes available because lesson learned here help expose the student to real-life scenarios that include movement instead of range targets that just.....sit there.




In my last handgun class we were directly yelled at within inches of our face, pushed, shoved, attempts to kick our feet out from under us or at least knock our stance off balance, etc., all while firing live rounds at full body size targets, and expected to follow specific instructions on how many shots to fire, where to shoot at on the target, which direction to turn and step next, etc. The goal was to put us under stress but at the same time teach us to maintain control and to be conscious of what we doing with the firearm.
No. 199     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Jimmy98   Gender: M   Age: 57   on  Oct 31, 2011 at 4:59 PM     
Years ago when my late wife was working a night shift I bought her a Walther PPK in .380. Back them it was just a misdemenor if you were caught with a gun in the car and a $200. fine. She never got caught with it, but if she had, I'd have figured the two hundred bucks was just 'insurance'and pid with no problem. It's cheaper than a funeral. I've still got her little Walther. It's a little anemic by my standards but it's a fine weapon and never jams, misfires or double feeds.
No. 200     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Dec 10, 2011 at 9:37 AM     
Jimmy98 wrote:

Years ago when my late wife was working a night shift I bought her a Walther PPK in .380. Back them it was just a misdemenor if you were caught with a gun in the car and a $200. fine. She never got caught with it, but if she had, I'd have figured the two hundred bucks was just 'insurance'and pid with no problem. It's cheaper than a funeral. I've still got her little Walther. It's a little anemic by my standards but it's a fine weapon and never jams, misfires or double feeds.



My ex sister-in-law has carried a loaded pistol in her purse as far back as I recall ever first meeting her. She is not licensed to carry. At least not during the time frame I was married to her sister.
No. 201     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Dec 10, 2011 at 9:50 AM     
I have become quite comfortable carrying my little Walther most all the time any more except of course where I am not allowed doing so by law.

Although comfortable with carrying and confident I can use the thing, I have not found my most comfortable method of which to carry. Holster methods have not appealed to me. So far it is typically just in my coat pocket. I am exploring the new lines of concealed carry clothing on the market. There are now shirts, pants, slacks, coats, etc., made with concealed carry pockets.

Here locally the county clerk's office announced as of this past October it will now take a minimum of 8 weeks and may take as long as 12 weeks to process a concealed carry license. Prior it was being done in an average of 2-3 weeks. They claim the number of applications being submitted has become so great there is a back log on performing the required background checks. It took almost 6 weeks before my license was in hand were as my brother in law who applied like just the week prior had his in hand in like 2 weeks. Mine was processed in about 33 days but then took almost another 14 days before it was mailed and arrived. Supposedly over the Thanksgiving Holiday shopping period the purchase of a firearm was one of the most purchased items and the month of November seen some of the highest numbers of concealed carry applications ever being submitted.
No. 202     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Dec 10, 2011 at 10:14 AM     
I had an encounter/meeting with Civil Air Patrol this AM. The question arose as to whether I can legally carry when on Civil Air Patrol activities. The answer was not clear. Of course I am most likely not allowed to carry if the activity is in a government owned facility (this is currently being challenged across the US), but the activities/meetings are often not on government property.

The plane available to use is US Air Force owned therefore I would think I could not carry when using that plane being it is government property. But as a licensed private pilot, the FAA firearms rules and regs do not apply to me as long as I do not go into any designated secure or required to be screened areas. FAA rules pertaining to a licensed private pilot imply the Pilot in Command controls whether someone carries on the plane they are piloting or do not carry. In this case, I would be the Pilot in Command.

Often the vehicle for on the road commuting is government owned while on Civil Air Patrol activities. That could raise a different set of questions.

I left with what I felt was a vague answer. Seems many situations are in a gray region when it comes to when and where you are legally allowed to carry with many opting to carry regardless and chance a felony.
No. 203     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Jan 12, 2012 at 7:50 PM     
Still experimenting with different methods and manners of carrying concealed. So far simply dropping the little Walther in the coat pocket seems to work best. If wearing jeans it does rest nicely in a back hip pocket and easily covered by my jacket.

Not unusual for me to be carrying a small like backpack bag containing my netbook and a camera or two. Been looking at such a bag that has a pocket designed to hold a handgun.
No. 204     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  BeachBrat   Gender: F   Age: 59   on  Jan 12, 2012 at 8:18 PM     
The longer I drive a cab, the more I want to buy and learn to use well, a handgun.
No. 205     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Jimmy98   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Jan 13, 2012 at 4:07 AM     
BeachBrat. I think it's the best thing you could possibly do. The longer you put it off the bigger risk you're running. The PD can only do so much and that's always 'after the fact'.
No. 206     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 4, 2012 at 12:01 AM     
I learned today that there are only 10 states remaining that will not honor my current CPL license as a valid CCW/CPL license in their states.
No. 207     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Jimmy98   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 4, 2012 at 1:59 AM     
Brat, refuse calls into those states and don't visit there. If you know this the crimiial element knows it too.
No. 208     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 4, 2012 at 8:35 AM     
I am scheduled to take a class that meets the requirements to license me in 7 other states.
No. 209     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 7, 2012 at 9:21 PM     
A local woman was shot and killed last week by assailants attempting to hijack her car from her.
No. 210     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Mar 8, 2012 at 10:43 AM     
I've been waiting on this new shotgun from Keltec to come out for a few years now. Well, it's out and I've been wanting to get it. Carries 14 rounds 2 2/34" shells, 18.5" barrel (legal size), and very compact. Wow.


No. 211     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Mar 8, 2012 at 10:48 AM     

Now bad for a 12-gauge shotty! Keltect KSG.





No. 212     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Jimmy98   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 8, 2012 at 11:14 AM     
Great weapon for police work, home defemse or bixomess defemse. It's too ebulky for what Beacj Brat meeds. She needs something compact enough to be accessable quickly but with enough punch to anchor the target with one roun or possibly two. I still say a .45, 9mm or .380 is er best choice.
No. 213     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Mar 8, 2012 at 11:39 AM     
Jimmy98 wrote:

Great weapon for police work, home defemse or bixomess defemse. It's too ebulky for what Beacj Brat meeds. She needs something compact enough to be accessable quickly but with enough punch to anchor the target with one roun or possibly two. I still say a .45, 9mm or .380 is er best choice.


Wasn't referring to Beach Brat at all here. The initial post and many following it from Darrell are around guns.

No. 214     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 8, 2012 at 12:37 PM     
Christian_Gent wrote:

I've been waiting on this new shotgun from Keltec to come out for a few years now. Well, it's out and I've been wanting to get it. Carries 14 rounds 2 2/34" shells, 18.5" barrel (legal size), and very compact. Wow.






I can see this as my primary carry weapon. Under a trench coat or a rain slicker.
No. 215     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Mar 8, 2012 at 2:07 PM     
Darrell wrote:

Christian_Gent wrote:

I've been waiting on this new shotgun from Keltec to come out for a few years now. Well, it's out and I've been wanting to get it. Carries 14 rounds 2 2/34" shells, 18.5" barrel (legal size), and very compact. Wow.






I can see this as my primary carry weapon. Under a trench coat or a rain slicker.


Darrell's new name is "Blade Runner". lol In NC, people who were arrested for a crime where a shotgun was used were charged with using a "weapon of mass destruction to commit a crime". lol No lie. It started around 2002.

No. 216     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Jimmy98   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 8, 2012 at 11:23 PM     
Curt it actually makes sense in one way since there is no way to control where shotgun pellets will go once they leavve the barrel or exactly who will be in the path of the pattern. If you're aiming at one person and ther are two or theree moer who had nothing go do with the reason that you're shooting within the shot pattern then you can just as easily kill an innocent person as the one that 'needed killing'as we say where I come from.
No. 217     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Mar 9, 2012 at 1:27 PM     
Jimmy98 wrote:
If you're aiming at one person and ther are two or theree moer who had nothing go do with the reason that you're shooting within the shot pattern then you can just as easily kill an innocent person as the one that 'needed killing'as we say where I come from.


I can see where you're coming from, Jimmy. With a shotgun, I wouldn't use it for anything past 10-15 meters with buckshot/birdshot in a home defense capacity because of what you just mentioned. Anything more, I would just switch to slugs to give them a Hershey kiss from afar....lol.

** In case someone doesn't know, shooting a slug onto steel targets makes a slug look like a metal hershey kiss, both in size and shape. Amazing, isn't it?

Admittedly, it would incredible difficult to justify our actions with a rifle or slug to a threat that far away that may cause us immediate danger. I hardly think that'll fly in court. Now war or as an LEO is different.

No. 218     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  BigFish28327   Gender: M   Age: 28   on  Mar 9, 2012 at 2:28 PM     


Wow didn't realize so many of us here were so into guns LOL I'm a southerner by birth, so guns are in my DNA HAHA

I just bought a Beretta 96D .40, it is so awesome!! Today, I just put some factory grips on it and now it feels so much better in my hand. It had worn rubber grips that were so old they were sticky, so I bought some Beretta 92 factory plastic, and WOW what a difference plastic can make!!

I did some research on my pistol and it is registered with Beretta as a Police Special and trust me if you saw the wear on it, you'd know it's been in and out of a holster for most if not all of its existence.

But it is a beautiful pistol, very elegant and stylish. Although, I used to own a Glock 22 and for abuse, they are the best; however, dependability would have to go with Beretta hands down.
No. 219     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 9, 2012 at 5:05 PM     
Christian_Gent wrote:

Jimmy98 wrote:
If you're aiming at one person and ther are two or theree moer who had nothing go do with the reason that you're shooting within the shot pattern then you can just as easily kill an innocent person as the one that 'needed killing'as we say where I come from.


I can see where you're coming from, Jimmy. With a shotgun, I wouldn't use it for anything past 10-15 meters with buckshot/birdshot in a home defense capacity because of what you just mentioned. Anything more, I would just switch to slugs to give them a Hershey kiss from afar....lol.




My 12 gauge auto with sabot slugs shoots within 2" groups at 100 yards.
No. 220     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Jimmy98   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 9, 2012 at 9:05 PM     
Are you aware that you can open a 12 guage shell, take out the shot and replace it with a stack of dimesZ? They travel like a slug but svsyyrt on imppsvy snf [rmrtsyr ;olr 24 yomu nixx=dsed/ Fpmy gpthryy yp [iy s domh;r ftp[ pg po; nryerrm rsvj fo,r/
No. 221     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Mar 31, 2012 at 10:58 AM     
I have a 5+ hour class coming up called "Bulletproof Mind" presented by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. This is supposedly the most comprehensive mental training available to help one prepare for a deadly encounter.

Lt. Col. Dave Grossman is the author of the article "On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs", the book "On Killing", amongst several other publications and research publications concerning combat, crime, self-defense, violence, and war.


No. 222     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Mar 31, 2012 at 8:20 PM     
Jimmy98 wrote:

Are you aware that you can open a 12 guage shell, take out the shot and replace it with a stack of dimesZ? They travel like a slug but svsyyrt on imppsvy snf [rmrtsyr ;olr 24 yomu nixx=dsed/ Fpmy gpthryy yp [iy s domh;r ftp[ pg po; nryerrm rsvj fo,r/


Huh??

:popcorn:
No. 223     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Mar 31, 2012 at 8:23 PM     

Just bought some low recoil 12-ga 00 buck shells that I'm going to try out. It would be interesting to see just how low recoil shells perform. Also got 500 birdshot shells to practice movement drills.

No. 224     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  Apr 1, 2012 at 10:32 PM     

Been thinking of replacing my Benelli SuperNova pump shotgun with an semi-auto. Been thinking of the Benelli line like the M2 or M4. Anyone ever worked these semi-auto shotguns before?

No. 225     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Apr 28, 2012 at 7:47 PM     
Couldn't figure out the embedding on this, so only the link. Video by a firearms instructor called "For self-defense: .22 beats .45"

http://www.wnd.com/wnd_video/for-self-defense-22-beats-45/
No. 226     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  blinddog438   Gender: M   Age: 73   on  Apr 28, 2012 at 9:37 PM     
Here in Missouri we have conceal and carry,but you must be qualified through a course and demostrate that you are qualified.Guns and Ammo have been hot since the last election,and it just doesnt slow down.Were all well armed here and the Gun shows are always packed.It is the American way and they do it well here.Show Me State....
No. 227     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  sonofHilkiah77   Gender: M   Age: 51   on  Apr 28, 2012 at 10:38 PM     
blinddog438 wrote:

Here in Missouri we have conceal and carry,but you must be qualified through a course and demostrate that you are qualified.Guns and Ammo have been hot since the last election,and it just doesnt slow down.Were all well armed here and the Gun shows are always packed.It is the American way and they do it well here.Show Me State....

Is it the "American way" that gun shows are packed, or that every citizen should own a gun?
No. 228     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Apr 28, 2012 at 10:59 PM     
Stormchaser wrote:

Couldn't figure out the embedding on this, so only the link. Video by a firearms instructor called "For self-defense: .22 beats .45"

http://www.wnd.com/wnd_video/for-self-defense-22-beats-45/



Thank you Storm. I have always been a supporter that a .45 is not required but did feel a .22 a little lacking. Thus I finally settled on a .380 which did come in first in this study. In fact, I have more recently been considering going to a smaller framed .380 rather than progress to a larger caliber handgun as many indicated I would want to do. Has not been the case for me.

Although I personally know a guy, he was not the perp by the way, that was hit like 7 times with a .22 in an encounter and it fazed him little other than bleeding.
No. 229     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Apr 28, 2012 at 11:04 PM     
Christian_Gent wrote:


Been thinking of replacing my Benelli SuperNova pump shotgun with an semi-auto. Been thinking of the Benelli line like the M2 or M4. Anyone ever worked these semi-auto shotguns before?




I have a Remington 12 gauge semi-auto that I purchased like back in the 70s. She has been a great shotgun but sports a little too long of a barrel to make for an ideal home defense shotgun. I have looked at shorter barrels for her but have yet to follow through. I may leave her be and simply purchase a new shotgun already equipped with a shorter barrel intended for home defense use.
No. 230     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Apr 29, 2012 at 3:16 PM     
Cheaper Than Dirt recently sent me an email about a Mossberg 500 12-ga. shotgun for around $329. It was tempting.

I still have my Bersa Thunder .380. Going to rejoin one of the local gunclubs in a week, methinks, and do some shootin'.
No. 231     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  May 1, 2012 at 2:16 PM     
Darrell wrote:

My 12 gauge auto with sabot slugs shoots within 2" groups at 100 yards.


That's great shooting there! My eyesight has diminished over the years so my shotgroup has suffered somewhat. Used to be a crackshot in the military, but that was 20 yrs ago.

No. 232     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  88Keys4Him62   Gender: F   Age: 50   on  May 1, 2012 at 9:10 PM     
Kari wrote:

I plan on learning to fire one of Dan's retired service weapons. A glock of some sort. I will let you know if I still have all my toes. But up there in the sierra foothills I want to know how to use it. :popcorn:


Hey Kari,

My youngest son Scotty bought a Glock and took me out in the desert to teach me how to use it. He said I did pretty good! AND as a bonus, I still have all my toes.

:rofl:
No. 233     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 40   on  May 2, 2012 at 9:44 AM     
Gotten some pretty good deals on ammo from bulkammo.com. My M&P 40c has become my favorite pistol now. Great handgun. Going to be taking a CCW class here in IL although we won't be able to legally carry. It's good to have this knowledge now, and practice with my CCW holsters whether OWB or IWB.




No. 234     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  May 2, 2012 at 6:41 PM     
Coincidentally I have been looking at purchasing ammo in bulk in just the past couple days. The local handgun range I use most now offers bulk ammo sales. But I have seen some really good deals online.

Although I see no one other than law enforcement officers doing so, there is much talk here in Michigan right now that citizens simply have the legal right to open carry. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
No. 235     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Oct 29, 2012 at 5:15 PM     
Today I ordered a set of Howard Leight Electronic Shooting Earmuffs. They are great for blocking the higher hearing damaging decibels while still allowing one to easily hear low decibel conversation on the range.
No. 236     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Patrick   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Oct 29, 2012 at 8:28 PM     
When I adopted my kids from Texas, I had to certify that I had no operable firearms. So, as required, I stored my shotgun and rifle (disassembled), got rid of all my ammunition and stored the parts in separate locked storage in compliance for the last 17 years. As a side note, I also had to promise not to spank the kids.

Now that my youngest son will be 18 in 8 days, I have applied for a concealed carry permit and will have a 9mm for my personal protection, as well as for sport shooting and clays.

I have no intention to carry any weapon as a normal part of my day, nor do I wish to inflict harm on any other person. However, I want the option to protect myself as needed and I want to be legal.
No. 237     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 41   on  Oct 29, 2012 at 9:03 PM     
You know, I somewhat have mixed emotions about not being able to carry whether openly or concealed here in IL. Only state that doesn't allow any public carry.

It's not about inflicting harm or "wanting" to blast someone. In these days where assaults are happening in broad daylight because of this Great Depression we're in & having an immoral society, it's making more sense to carry for protection.

Looking at a Crimson Trace Green laser for my Range/Home Defense (HD) 40cal Springfield XDM. Would love to get one for my M&P 40 compact, but it doesn't make sense since I can't carry, regardless.

No. 238     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Patrick   Gender: M   Age: 58   on  Oct 29, 2012 at 10:21 PM     
I am not familiar with the concealed carry laws of the various states. It does seem curious that Illinois prohibits it considering the density of the population and the incidents of gun violence.

I will have to put in considerable time in at the range before I recover a part of my skill level from the military. There are also some courses I should probably take to refresh my memories on gun safety and the law.
No. 239     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 41   on  Oct 30, 2012 at 9:32 AM     


I've read elsewhere that's it's in the citizen's best interest to take at least one course, preferably more, with a pistol/revolver before carrying. Not necessarily about how to shoot, but more about awareness, confidence, and scenarios one may not have been aware of otherwise.

I'd like to take an advanced pistol course along with a force-on-force class which is the closest thing to realistic scenario-based training you can get.

No. 240     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Dec 10, 2012 at 2:40 PM     
I had some business to attend to today at the local county clerk's office. In our jurisdiction this is where you initiate your application for a concealed carry license. It was one busy place with two clerks setup accepting applications. I am in the county clerk's office fairly often attending to various business and I have never seen it so busy accepting applications at this time of year or any other even though this typically is the busiest time of year for firearms sales.

Maybe it has something to do with local shootings. We just had another murder 2 mornings ago. At the car wash just down the road from my place of employment someone shot and killed someone.
No. 241     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 52   on  Dec 10, 2012 at 2:45 PM     
No. 242     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Dec 10, 2012 at 2:51 PM     
What I found most interesting was that most the applicants were young females appearing to be just barely out of their teens if not still teenagers.

I kind of felt out of place being the only one in line not waiting to submit a concealed carry application. It did not take long though for me to become the center of conversation when socializing revealed that I already have my license. Questions ranging from what do I carry, how do I carry it, to "do you have it on you right now?" ensued. LOL. You cannot even carry a cell phone into this place let alone a firearm.
No. 243     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  BookBinderGirl   Gender: F   Age: 43   on  Dec 14, 2012 at 3:23 PM     
Just noticed I'd posted almost exactly the same thing earlier in this thread that I just posted here. Ignore me.
No. 244     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Dec 14, 2012 at 6:17 PM     
Darrell wrote:

What I found most interesting was that most the applicants were young females appearing to be just barely out of their teens if not still teenagers.

I kind of felt out of place being the only one in line not waiting to submit a concealed carry application. It did not take long though for me to become the center of conversation when socializing revealed that I already have my license. Questions ranging from what do I carry, how do I carry it, to "do you have it on you right now?" ensued. LOL. You cannot not even carry a cell phone into this place let alone a firearm.


LOL, all those young females saw you as a sort of John Wayne, did they?
No. 245     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Dec 14, 2012 at 6:25 PM     
Every one of you needs to go out and get this book! Seriously, gun owner or not (I posted here as I thought I'd get a better hearing). This is the best book I've ever read about the need for guns in our society. Not so much for now - but for what's coming. Available also for Kindle and Nook.

299 Days: The Preparation




I have Book One and Two on my Nook. Will shortly be ordering Books Two and Three!

http://www.amazon.com/299-Days-Preparation-Glen-Tate/dp/0615680682/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1355530701&sr=8-3&keywords=299+days
No. 246     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  SonShines   Gender: F   Age: 33   on  Dec 16, 2012 at 2:02 PM     
Storm, ten bucks says Nancy Lanza would have agreed about that being a great book. You know, before her son shot her and 28 others.


No. 247     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Christian_Gent   Gender: M   Age: 41   on  Dec 16, 2012 at 2:09 PM     
SonShines wrote:

Storm, ten bucks says Nancy Lanza would have agreed about that being a great book. You know, before her son shot her and 28 others.



SS, you sure have a way with words, don'tcha?

No. 248     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Stormchaser   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Dec 16, 2012 at 3:57 PM     
Christian_Gent wrote:

SonShines wrote:

Storm, ten bucks says Nancy Lanza would have agreed about that being a great book. You know, before her son shot her and 28 others.



SS, you sure have a way with words, don'tcha?




I think I would call that 'cynicism', CG.


And about the book, well dang! We should just throw it out because someone a little off might have read it, right? :headbang:

Shoot, I'll bet Hitler read parts of the Bible at one time, but no matter, THROW IT IN THE BONFIRE! :headbang:



No. 249     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 52   on  Dec 24, 2012 at 8:39 PM     
No. 250     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 52   on  Jan 3, 2013 at 5:16 PM     
No. 251     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Darrell   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Jan 3, 2013 at 5:51 PM     
I read some stats in USA Today that currently indicate school educators are in record numbers suddenly one of the professions with the greatest numbers of their ranks attending handgun courses and applying for concealed carry licenses.

And these are folks often found to be more "liberal" than "conservative".
No. 252     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 52   on  Jan 7, 2013 at 1:39 PM     
No. 253     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 22   on  Jan 27, 2014 at 10:55 PM     
In a 53-46 vote, the US Senate narrowly passed a measure that will stop the United States from entering into the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty. I have not read it word for word, but supposedly this treaty calls for members to support weapons collection and disarmament.
No. 254     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 35   on  May 11, 2015 at 5:11 PM     
Purchased a new Taurus 738FS .380 today. Man she is small. I have fairly small hands and my hand pretty much conceals her.

I actually went to purchase two new handguns. The other was to be a Taurus Slim 700 .40, but they had already sold their last one. Apparently pretty popular. Some reviews are calling it the handgun of the year.
No. 255     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  May 11, 2015 at 9:22 PM     
even 38 colts are very accurate, they all seem to be.
No. 256     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 35   on  May 12, 2015 at 10:05 AM     
crayons wrote:

even 38 colts are very accurate, they all seem to be.


As far as handguns go, I have used a variety of calibers. But currently only own a couple .380s. Was looking to expand horizons with a low cost .40.

An acquaintance has informed me that a firearms dealer not far from me has the Taurus Slim in 9mm for only $269.

That dealer is on my way to the airport. I am at the airport 2-3 times and sometimes more per week. Will stop and look at her. In fact, despite the current rain, I am headed to the airport in just a few minutes.
No. 257     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 35   on  May 12, 2015 at 11:57 AM     
My new Taurus. Likely smaller than what you see displayed on your screen. Only a 2.84" barrel length, 5.25" overall length and weighs only 10.2 ounces:

No. 258     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 35   on  May 12, 2015 at 7:15 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:
As far as handguns go, I have used a variety of calibers. But currently only own a couple .380s. Was looking to expand horizons with a low cost .40.

An acquaintance has informed me that a firearms dealer not far from me has the Taurus Slim in 9mm for only $269.

That dealer is on my way to the airport. I am at the airport 2-3 times and sometimes more per week. Will stop and look at her. In fact, despite the current rain, I am headed to the airport in just a few minutes.


Well, that acquaintance was in great error as to the location of the dealer. No where near the airport and not even on the road he stated. Maybe I heard incorrectly.

Got on my phone, found them, and did drive over there. Like 5 miles or so from where the acquaintance stated. Figured if nothing else I could check them out and pick up an extra mag or two. But they had neither the handgun I was interested in nor the mags for anything I currently have.

They did not have the Taurus Slim in 40 but the 9mm is tempting, and may be mine by end of the week. They also have a Walther that seriously caught my interest.

I did not even know this firearms dealer existed. Even though they did not have exactly what I was after today, they may become my favorite local private owned dealer. They have an interesting and large variety of firearms and accessories, as well as able to answer any question with some valid pertinent info.

Where I purchased yesterday's handgun, only the price was right. Nobody in the store seemed to really know anything else about firearms. It was one of the chain stores.

Actually, most any firearm I have purchased could have been purchased online for much less. But you then also pay sales tax and like another $50 to $100, depending on the dealer, to receive and process the delivery. I have simply never felt right to undercut my local dealer in that manner and then expect them to receive and process delivery for me. Even though they offer the service. If they have it in stock, I pay them the extra for it. Who knows though, maybe the $50 to $100 is more than they clear when they directly sell most firearms directly to you.
No. 259     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  May 16, 2015 at 2:59 PM     
After running the race today, I went back to Dunhams to purchase the Taurus .40. Found I have missed the sale price. I was off by one day. I thought their sales ran from Sun thru Sat. They run from Sat thru Fri. Price was raised by like $100. But they did have a Walther on sale and I purchased it. I have been contemplating getting another for a long time. Come close to buying a S&W 9mm though. 380 ammo is becoming tough to acquire forcing me to expand my caliber range of owned handguns.
No. 260     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  May 27, 2015 at 7:29 PM     
Finally snagged one of those Taurus Slim .40s today. One of four local dealers finally got one in. 3 of the dealers have had them in 9mm but a .40 they said is hard to get and is typically sold quickly. The dealer said I got the last of 3 he had come in this week.

I like this handgun. May go back and get the 9mm version just for fun. I did attempt to also get a Walther P22 today, but they were sold out. That is also a popular little handgun. I am really only after it because it includes the same Walther laser that will also fit my Walther PK380. The laser alone costs almost 1/3 the price of the package deal. Figured I may as well pay the extra and have another alternative caliber handgun around.

Learned something new today. The dealer said the same parent company, which is a Brazilian company by the way, that owns Smith & Wesson also owns Taurus. Thus the reason for the remarkedly alike features and looks of the handguns.
No. 261     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  May 28, 2015 at 12:58 AM     
.380 ammo in a quality brand is still tough to find around here right now, as well as no .22 ammo of any kind at all. Have found 9mm, .40 and .45 to be in ample supply.
No. 262     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  May 28, 2015 at 1:00 AM     
Ordered more snap caps today. I now have them in 9mm, .380 and .40.
No. 263     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  ElderEarl   Gender: M   Age: 60   on  May 28, 2015 at 4:53 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

My new Taurus. Likely smaller than what you see displayed on your screen. Only a 2.84" barrel length, 5.25" overall length and weighs only 10.2 ounces:



Please Give me a reference to where I can find this gun.
No. 264     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  May 28, 2015 at 8:11 PM     
Stock market treated me well today, therefore I did go back and purchase two more handguns. Got the little Taurus Slim 9mm and the Walther P22 with the laser. The laser is the exact same one Walther offers for the PK380, therefore it also easily fits and functions on my other two Walthers.

I did have a little hassle with Dunham's though. A couple weeks ago when I went to purchase the Taurus Slim it was on a Saturday. They claimed the sale price ended on Friday and said their ads go from Saturday through Friday. They then wanted another $110 for the gun. I declined. This past Saturday they advertised the Taurus Slim and the Walther both on sale. I went to purchase both today, was at the register and they rang them up at regular price, $161+ more. I said that is not correct, they are on sale. They said "no", the sale ended Wednesday. I complained that they did the same thing to me two weeks ago, the sale conveniently ended the day before. A manager then came and authorized taking the $161 off. But to their credit, the ad does say the sale ends on May 27th. I had not read that, was only going by what they told me two weeks ago. The manager then stated their sale ads do not always go Saturday through Friday like they told me two weeks ago.

I acquired ammo today also. Now have some for all my variety of calibers. I had not purchased .22 LR in a very long time. Recently it has been harder to find than .380. But I found Remington today local for only $22 per 500. I could not believe how cheap. I can have a lot of fun with that P22 for very low cost.
No. 265     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  May 28, 2015 at 8:28 PM     
ElderEarl wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:

My new Taurus. Likely smaller than what you see displayed on your screen. Only a 2.84" barrel length, 5.25" overall length and weighs only 10.2 ounces:


Please Give me a reference to where I can find this gun.


I purchased mine at Dunham's. Most all the dealers around here had them in stock, but Dunham's was $30-$60 less than all the other local dealers. The only reason I purchased it there.

Not sure what your personal goal is for such a compact handgun. I love the little thing, but surprisingly the slide is more difficult to operate than I thought it would be. More difficult than any of my larger frame .380, .40 and 9mm. I purchased it with in mind it may be easier for my daughter and nieces to learn to shoot on. Not appearing so. Some say it will "loosen up" as used. Not sure. At the moment my Taurus Slim 9mm appears easier for them, and of course the Walther P22 is easier but only a .22.

Smith & Wesson offers a very similar handgun in .380 I think called The Bodyguard. I have been told the slide on it is much easier for most all to operate. I highly considered that model but opted to not pay what they are asking for it, purchased the Taurus instead and put the difference towards owning another handgun. But I may revisit acquiring it and/or the revolver .38 model of The Bodyguard just for something easier for my daughter and nieces to use.

BTW - Although heavier, my Taurus 9mm and .40 are both not much larger than that little .380. Slightly wider and only about an inch longer. Both very concealable handguns for the fire power offered and the slide on both easier to operate than the little .380.
No. 266     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  ElderEarl   Gender: M   Age: 60   on  May 29, 2015 at 9:24 AM     
Thanks for the information.
No. 267     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  May 29, 2015 at 10:37 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:
Not sure what your personal goal is for such a compact handgun. I love the little thing, but surprisingly the slide is more difficult to operate than I thought it would be. More difficult than any of my larger frame .380, .40 and 9mm. I purchased it with in mind it may be easier for my daughter and nieces to learn to shoot on. Not appearing so. Some say it will "loosen up" as used. Not sure. At the moment my Taurus Slim 9mm appears easier for them, and of course the Walther P22 is easier but only a .22.


Actually, now after having a couple hours put into using all 6 of my handguns, the slide on the Walther PK380 operates the smoothest and with the most ease. With the Walther P22 being the next easiest to operate.
No. 268     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  May 30, 2015 at 7:51 PM     
I thought my next handgun purchase would likely be a .45 and/or a revolver. On the way to the gym today I stopped at a dealer. They had the Springfield XD Mod.2 .40 on sale in a package deal including lockable case, two mags, mag loader, double mag belt pouch and belt holster. This is the newest model from Springfield specifically designed for concealability.

Any XD has been a "backburner" desire of mine since I first ever held one. But I have always hesitated at the price. Today the regular price was discounted $87 to be including all the extras for free, and another $100 off for the limited sale. Could not resist at that price. Especially when I also expressed an interest in a laser and they knocked $50 off the best laser they carry. My existing laser will not fit the XD rail.

This handgun exhibits the smoothest action of any of the 7 I own. Up until now, I figured nothing would beat the Walthers, but this XD does. In fact, with the XD being just as compact to conceal as the PK380 which I most often carry, the XD is likely now to be the one I opt for as I head out the door. Much more fire power in about the same size package. Caliber and capacity.

Will likely now sell one of the PK380s and the Taurus .40. This XD more than meets what purchasing those offered me. I will likely keep one Walther PK380 for sentimental reasons. First handgun I ever owned. In fact, if I do opt to sell the two, it appears both are maybe already spoken for. A dealer expressed they would buy one of he PK380s from me and my brother in law wants the Taurus .40. But I also really like that Taurus.

The XD Mod.2 has a 3 zone textured grip which is amazingly comfortable with both the regular and the extended capacity mag. Has a cool fiber optic front sight. Also has the most impressive safety innovations of any handgun I have ever checked out. In fact, if you go all the way back to Post 0, you will find that a Springfield XD was what I had originally narrowed down my desire for when first doing my research to purchase a handgun. Funny how one can come full circle back to their original decision. Even after that much time has passed.
No. 269     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 1, 2015 at 1:21 PM     
Although not a handgun, I picked up a brand new AR15 tactical rifle today. Purchased a DPMS Panther Oracle AR15. She is pretty bare but optics ready, fires 223 Remington or 5.56 NATOs, 16" barrel, one 30rd mag, sports a 6-position stock, standard hand grip and trigger. Functions very simply and smoothly.

Even though I checked out some costing considerably less, I still consider this entry level. Got her for under $500. I have seen other quoting prices as much as $700 to $1200 depending on the accessories included and the mods that have been done. Being I am not that experienced with all the mods, I opted to go "bare" and add as I have time to check out and review accessories and mods.

Reviews on the AR15 range from one extreme to the other. Just as many claiming to love it, it will be their only AR15 for life, it operates flawlessly regardless of available ammo, solid and reliable firearm, etc., while others simply call it a piece of "junk".

I thoroughly looked this firearm over at the dealer and found none of the negative issues reviews reported. Not even the reports of a "sloppy" fitting and rattling stock to no positive safety did I find to be true. The most recent reviews I encountered were written in Jan 2014. Maybe the manufacture has added and/or improved those features since the first release of the firearm.
No. 270     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 1, 2015 at 1:23 PM     
Here she is:

No. 271     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 14, 2015 at 7:19 PM     
I just learned today that we now have a Field & Stream store about 40 minutes or thereabouts away. Going to try and get down there this coming week to check out a new XD .45 they have on sale.
No. 272     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Jun 14, 2015 at 8:02 PM     
meant to post this a couple weeks ago, cant find the original post, but just to make everyone aware of this subversive nonsense

About that Obama “gag order” on firearm-related speech
http://hotair.com/archives/2015/06/09/about-that-obama-gag-order-on-firearm-related-speech/
No. 273     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 15, 2015 at 3:18 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

I just learned today that we now have a Field & Stream store about 40 minutes or thereabouts away. Going to try and get down there this coming week to check out a new XD .45 they have on sale.


Got an opportunity to check out that XD .45. Turns out it is an XD S. Although still an impressive handgun, it is the old model of an XD. I prefer the new XD Mod.2 same as my most recent .40, if going to invest in a .45. More comfortable grip and easier to operate slide. I also like the trigger pull better.

Checking out .45 autos, I have gained a new liking for the larger caliber handguns. As I originally found, but allowed myself to be steered down a path of smaller calibers, the .45 is still likely the easiest to handle of most all calibers despite the greater power, more mass to absorb the kickback, more accurate for most users than attempting to handle a smaller caliber.

But appears I am going to have to wait for a sale or cough up the couple extra hundred the XD Mod.2 cost. Could settle for a Glock or an S&W, but my goal was to acquire the power of a .45 in a more compact frame thus more appropriate for concealed carry.
No. 274     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 15, 2015 at 3:23 PM     
One thing I do like about that new Field & Stream store though, they are more likely to carry the more sought after brand names in tactical firearms, accessories, and gear than I can find more locally.

I can pick up a Daniel Defense AR15 right there without having the inconvenience of obtaining it online.
No. 275     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jun 15, 2015 at 3:46 PM     
Colt just filed for Bankruptcy, they announced it on the news today.
No. 276     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 15, 2015 at 4:02 PM     
I cannot locate that XD Mod.2 .45 in stock anywhere locally. Supposedly one of the most popular handguns on the market today for civilian and LE. In fact, every handgun enthusiast I talk to locally most always is saying "I am getting me an XD next" or "I just got me an XD".
No. 277     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 15, 2015 at 4:09 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

One thing I do like about that new Field & Stream store though, they are more likely to carry the more sought after brand names in tactical firearms, accessories, and gear than I can find more locally.

I can pick up a Daniel Defense AR15 right there without having the inconvenience of obtaining it online.


I love the variety of free clinics the F&S store has on schedule for the summer evenings. A little bit of a drive for me, but I am often down that way anyway, and it appears soon starting Krav Maga classes down that way. Cannot find Krav Maga being offered locally with an instructor that appears credible enough for my liking.

Anyway, the F&S store has a free Bushcraft Skills clinic tomorrow evening. I am going to attempt to be there.
No. 278     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 16, 2015 at 9:21 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

I cannot locate that XD Mod.2 .45 in stock anywhere locally. Supposedly one of the most popular handguns on the market today for civilian and LE. In fact, every handgun enthusiast I talk to locally most always is saying "I am getting me an XD next" or "I just got me an XD".


My local Gander Mountain claims to have the XD Mod.2 in stock in .45. I am going to run over there today and see. I have a voucher guaranteeing they will accept one of my existing certified handguns in trade and provide an additional amount off any firearm of my choosing.

They quoted me a much lower price on the Mod.2 than I expected, but maybe they are not including the extra mag, loader, lockable case, holster, etc., as it typically comes with.
No. 279     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 16, 2015 at 8:49 PM     
Gander lied. They had no XD Mod.2 in stock in a .45. They claim they are not able to keep them in stock. In fact, they only had one XD Mod.2 and it was a .40. I already have the XD in a .40.

I did leave there though with a new Ruger .177 break barrel air rifle with iron sights and scope. And picked up a high velocity CO2 tactical pistol with laser on the way home at another dealer. I was after a Benjamin air rifle but no one local had the model I desire in stock, as well as after a Benjamin tactical nitro piston .177 pistol, but no one has that in stock.
No. 280     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Jun 16, 2015 at 9:07 PM     
my biggest worry is keepin enough bluing n' bore cleaner around,
with this crazy weather have been cleaning/bluing barrels
lightly oiling movables before i bed down to cut down on the work, also keeping everything double wrapped, rust likes my favorites.


No. 281     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 16, 2015 at 10:27 PM     
crayons wrote:

my biggest worry is keepin enough bluing n' bore cleaner around,
with this crazy weather have been cleaning/bluing barrels
lightly oiling movables before i bed down to cut down on the work, also keeping everything double wrapped, rust likes my favorites.




At a local industrial auction I acquired a couple hundred large reusable industrial grade desiccant bags for like $10. Every so often you have to reactivate them in an oven for about 45 minutes. They work well.
No. 282     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Jun 16, 2015 at 10:39 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:


At a local industrial auction I acquired a couple hundred large reusable industrial grade desiccant bags for like $10. Every so often you have to reactivate them in an over for about 45 minutes. They work well.


yeah thanks, I'll bite, send me a message, wont cost anything to send nuevo/diaz of em
No. 283     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 17, 2015 at 8:57 AM     
crayons wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:


At a local industrial auction I acquired a couple hundred large reusable industrial grade desiccant bags for like $10. Every so often you have to reactivate them in an over for about 45 minutes. They work well.


yeah thanks, I'll bite, send me a message, wont cost anything to send nuevo/diaz of em


Sure, I could toss a few in a box and send them off to ya.
No. 284     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 17, 2015 at 10:06 AM     
Purchased another .177 air rifle this AM. Located a Benjamin Prowler. Not the model Benjamin I would really like, but the dealer let me have it for almost half off. I am really only after it to compare the nitro piston technology to traditional spring technology.

The first thing I notice when I pick up a nitro piston firearm is that it is considerably lighter than its peers. May not seem like much to many, but when toting a rife around for a bit, weight becomes an important factor.

These are also supposed to be up to 70% quieter than their traditional spring operated peers. With what is often only a single shot opportunity with a high velocity break barrel .177 or .22 air rifle, noise may not seem like an important consideration. But it is if you desire to not "scare" other nearby game away and/or alert others to your presence.
No. 285     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 59   on  Jun 17, 2015 at 11:48 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

crayons wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:


At a local industrial auction I acquired a couple hundred large reusable industrial grade desiccant bags for like $10. Every so often you have to reactivate them in an over for about 45 minutes. They work well.


yeah thanks, I'll bite, send me a message, wont cost anything to send nuevo/diaz of em


Sure, I could toss a few in a box and send them off to ya.


had some little 3 inch bags that i threw away, what size are these dryer sandbags/for lack of a better word/ curious since you said large, thanks

No. 286     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 17, 2015 at 6:12 PM     
crayons wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:

crayons wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:


At a local industrial auction I acquired a couple hundred large reusable industrial grade desiccant bags for like $10. Every so often you have to reactivate them in an over for about 45 minutes. They work well.


yeah thanks, I'll bite, send me a message, wont cost anything to send nuevo/diaz of em


Sure, I could toss a few in a box and send them off to ya.


had some little 3 inch bags that i threw away, what size are these dryer sandbags/for lack of a better word/ curious since you said large, thanks



I will try to swing by my storage facility where these are at later this evening, and measure them. Without one in front of me, my guess is they are like 3.5" X 6" and about 2" depth.

The automotive parts manufacturer they came from were actually throwing them in the trash by the hundreds. I noticed such and carried one home. Even those these state not reusable, logic and science dictate they should be. I contacted the manufacturer of the bags. They themselves replied that despite the print on them stating not reusable, that they are and even provided me printed directions on how to reactivate them.

I went back to the place I saw them, they said I could have a all I wanted at a low price, if I removed them from the trash. I did so. Most are clean and look brand new. The place now no longer tosses them in trash. They now sell them as salvage.
No. 287     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 17, 2015 at 9:55 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:
I will try to swing by my storage facility where these are at later this evening, and measure them. Without one in front of me, my guess is they are like 3.5" X 6" and about 2" depth.


I did not make it over there. Been all over southeast Michigan today, but not to either of my storage facilities.

Was in New Hudson considering the purchase of vacant land adjacent to the airport, was at the Oakland airport checking out training cost of furthering my current pilot credentials, was in Howell considering helicopter pilot lessons, and was in Novi picking up inventory of things I sell online as well as purchased another firearm while in Novi.
No. 288     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 19, 2015 at 9:02 PM     
Picked up one of these today on sale at Gander Mountain. It is a S&W M&P Bodyguard 380 with a Crimson Trace laser. As much as I like my Taurus 380, this beats it hands down all the way around other than it cost more.

No. 289     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 19, 2015 at 9:14 PM     
Also picked up a Benjamin Trail NP .177 Caliber Pellet Air Pistol today. These babies are difficult to locate here in Michigan, and most out of state dealer are prohibited from shipping them to Michigan to anyone without an FFL. At the moment they are regulated in Michigan like any other handgun with a silencer. Come July 1 this law changes in Michigan.

This is one sweet pellet gun. It is a break barrel with a nitrogen piston, therefore no mechanical spring nor CO2 needed:

No. 290     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 19, 2015 at 10:10 PM     
LOL. I was just glancing around here and thinking I have acquired quite an arsenal of firearms over the past 30 days. Including 4 new concealed carry knives.

Prepper and self-defense publications are advising to carry a knife, especially where illegal to carrying a firearm.

Here is one. This is worn clipped on the belt in the sheath or around the neck in the sheath on a chain like a pair of dog tags. The chain is included. It has become my favorite carry knife being I cannot tolerate a pocketful of things, thus I opt for around the neck:







No. 291     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 19, 2015 at 11:41 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:


It may be difficult to see in the photo, but there is an obtrusive belt/pocket clip on the back of that sheath. Being I never plan to carry it clipped, I am thinking about taking the sheath apart and removing that clip to reduce the size and weight, even if only a little for carrying around the neck.

Then just in case I may desire the convenience of a clip on occasion, simply buy another one and leave the clip on the sheath.
No. 292     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 19, 2015 at 11:52 PM     
Clip has been removed. She was simply attached with just a couple hex screws and nuts. It actually did make a substantial difference in the weight. That little clip is actually heavier by itself than the sheath alone.
No. 293     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 24, 2015 at 9:33 AM     
Yesterday I stopped and checked a large gun range were as one can shoot all day long 7 days per week for only $8. And they give you two targets.

At the moment they only have an outdoor range, but are building a new indoor range of which the young ladies working there said should be open in the Fall.

They said I am free to bring as many of whatever caliber of firearm I desire to shoot.

They also appear to have the largest collection of firearms and accessories for sale that I have encountered under one roof in Michigan. Appear to have even more than the local Gander Mountain, but I am sure Gander has much more in back than what is out there on display.

In fact, this place has a reputation worldwide as a manufacturer of high quality firearms optics and sights since 1926 making them right here in Michigan.

Williams Gun Sight is the name of the company. They have some major construction going on and appear to be about to triple the size of their current facilities.

I once lived less than half a mile from Williams. Back in the 70s and into the 90s, I used to sight my rifles there, have them do my gunsmith work, install scopes, upgrade and tune my archery bows. Until yesterday, I had not realized how large they have grown and are growing.
No. 294     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 30, 2015 at 2:16 PM     
Before I walked into the door of the local police station to drop off the PSR (pistol sales record) for latest purchase, I happened to glance down and catch the dealer "fat fingered" the transaction date. Knowing the PSR would not be accepted with an incorrect date, I went back to the dealer to get a new one. All "I"s have to be dotted and all "T"s crossed on these things or they will not be accepted. They will not even be accepted with an error crossed out and the correct info added to the side. Has to be a completed and properly signed error free form.
No. 295     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 36   on  Jun 30, 2015 at 4:21 PM     
While at the police station I noticed a sign that they had gun locks available. I asked what kind and how much? She handed me a nice keyed cable lock. Again, I asked "how much"? She replied "Free".

Turns out my local police department participates in Project Child Safe. They provide free gun locks disbursed via several organizations all over the USA.

http://www.projectchildsafe.org/

Sure even the good quality Master Lock cable ones do not really cost much, less than $5 each, thus I almost felt guilty to take it for free.

I got online to see what the deal is, and it turns out if I feel that guilty, I can contribute financially to support Project Child Safe by making a donation via that website link.
No. 296     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  insular926   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Sep 15, 2015 at 6:47 PM     



http://www.bidgunner.com/
No. 297     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 101   on  Sep 15, 2015 at 7:12 PM     
insular926 wrote:




http://www.bidgunner.com/


Interesting. Wish I could list there rather than buy. Hardly a week goes by that someone does not contact me about purchasing a firearm.
No. 298     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 101   on  Sep 15, 2015 at 7:23 PM     
insular926 wrote:




http://www.bidgunner.com/


Not sure what kind of bids the auctions are being won for, but their buy it now and/or gun store prices are way too high. Those firearms can be purchased elsewhere for much less.

I purchased the following Mossberg 500 20 gauge combo package with another barrel and a scope locally just yesterday for $300 out the door. If purchased on this BidGunner site, not including a scope, one would be looking at over $500 to buy and have the same packaged shipped and transferred to them. Nevertheless, still interesting.



No. 299     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 101   on  Sep 15, 2015 at 7:30 PM     
LOL. I was just reading the OP I initiated this thread with. I have acquired quite an arsenal of firearms since that first post, now own like 16+, but have yet to acquire a .45 ACP.
No. 300     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 101   on  Sep 16, 2015 at 9:12 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:I purchased the following Mossberg 500 20 gauge combo package with another barrel and a scope locally just yesterday for $300 out the door.



I like this shotgun so well, I am now considering going back and getting the 12 gauge combo package. They have raised the price $30, but it is still a bargain versus the around $500 that others are asking for the same thing and/or less. Many do not include the extra barrel and/or the scope and still charge around $489 just for the firearm.
No. 301     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Mar 6, 2016 at 8:21 PM     
Yesterday I attended an advanced concealed carry class. It was very good. There was active law enforcement and military personnel in the class. The class was based on Krav Maga Worldwide's approach on the subject, but the law enforcement and military folks were invited to provide/share their training's potential variations of each technique.

The class primarily taught there are potential situations that may not warrant immediate deadly force, and the initial result is hand to hand combat prior to escalating to it deemed necessary to present a weapon, and/or there are potential innocent victims in danger of being harmed if a firearm is presented.

Concealed carry laws were covered, preferred methods of concealed carry were presented and actively practiced that are considered best at maintaining pocession of your firearm if running, kicking, jumping, punching, or whatever activity you may encounter in a hand to hand combat situation. Hand to hand combat techniques actively covered. How to safely create space if and when you do deem it necessary to present your weapon, facing multiple assailants, alternative actions if weapon fails to fire, safely using the firearm as a weapon other than shooting someone with it, safely operating as a team against assailants primarily on techniques to prevent shooting each other, etc..

For what it is worth, the instructor, stated that most of us carrying concealed really have no business doing so until having further training than what is required to obtain the concealed carry license.

Next weekend I am attending a class on response to active shooter situations. This class will also have law enforcement and military folks attending.

This same training group has also announced that in April they are kicking off an academy providing advanced firearms and tactical training. I was already in the process of scoping out such training at a firearms school in Ann Arbor.

I also already have a lifetime membership to Front Sight in Nevada, but just cannot get out there as much as I like for such training. The Ann Arbor academy appears to have very good training with highly rated credible and experienced instructors. But the group I was with this past Saturday is part of my current Krav Maga academy, with the two guys starting it coming highly recommended. One of the pair of directors ranks as one of only two certified Krav Maga black belts on a school staff in the state of Michigan as well as being a Marine. The other has 20+ years special forces training, instructs counter terrorism and tactical assessment courses at the University of Michigan, and is a consultant to top diplomats, government officials, law and military groups around the world. He served as a personal developer and "lead" trainer to put the country of Albania's special forces troop in place called BOS. Ranked the most elite unit of the Albanian Army, as well as being one of the best trained and most professional special operations units in the region. And they both instruct hand to hand self-defense and weapons training at my current Krav Maga location. Therefore I am leaning in the direction of sticking with these guys for such training.
No. 302     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Mar 6, 2016 at 8:29 PM     
The place in Ann Arbor is still very tempting though:

http://www.annarborarms.com/instructors

Maybe I will do some classes with both schools.
No. 303     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Mar 6, 2016 at 8:36 PM     
This is the two guys I was referring to at my current facility. And a lady I failed to mention that is involved as far as fitness and nutrition training. She typically instructs my two Monday Krav classes.:

https://kravmaganovi.com/instructors/mike-berean/

https://kravmaganovi.com/instructors/dritan_demiraj/

https://kravmaganovi.com/instructors/dori-berean/

I am not going to provide the links, but there are photos/videos that include moi on this website and their Facebook page. I just recently learned they had such posted of me.
No. 304     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Mar 6, 2016 at 8:38 PM     
And this is my Front Sight facility, but difficult for me to train much there with me being in Michigan and they in Nevada. And to stay on top of such skills requires regular training.

https://www.frontsight.com/worldclassinstruction.asp

I did just learn today that Front Sight does now have some remote/traveling training seminars as well as some online self-study programs. Not yet sure if my current membership allows me access to such at no additional charge. When I obtained my membership it was supposed to include lifetime access to all current training as well as any newly added programs.
No. 305     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 60   on  Mar 6, 2016 at 9:16 PM     
all ya need is at least one hogleg you never miss with,
an extension of yer hand. most robberies happen close range.

I use fixed iron site long arms, 2 with rear sliders... no maintenance
No. 306     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Mar 12, 2016 at 11:37 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Next weekend I am attending a class on response to active shooter situations. This class will also have law enforcement and military folks attending.


I was just about out the door to this class when I checked VMs. The class has been cancelled due to the primary instructor having a family emergency. Good thing I checked, with typical traffic it is a minimum 1 1/2 hour drive round trip. Saturday afternoons I often experience even heavier traffic. And today it is too late to schedule into some other Krav class as an alternative.

Although I would have not really wasted the time. Would have simply been effort put forth to not get to do what was desired to do. On such long drives I am most always listening to an audio book, educational CD, or some other such audio education.
No. 307     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 53   on  Mar 13, 2016 at 10:26 AM     
Supposedly a .45 inherently has more stopping power and in most hands is more accurate than other calibers.


Have to totally disagree with the above portion I highlighted in red.

The .45 is actually LESS accurate in most hands due to the tremendous "kickback" of the weapon every time you fire it.

Every time one fires it one has to re-zone in to their intended target with a firearm that moves a much greater distance vertically every time it is fired.

I saw this proven when our Chief of Security at one company I worked at chose to re-qualify with his .45 instead a more manageable 9mm or .40 cal for example.

His rounds were all over the place, even missing the target sometimes, lol.

He failed and had to re-qualify again in order to pass.

The Instructor turned to us and said, "He should have brought a 9mm, much easier to control".

A .45 DOES have more stopping power, but is much harder to accurately control than smaller calibers.

One thing about a .45, you only need ONE well placed shot!

People have been known to survive being shot numerous times with a 9mm round, but a .45 can usually do the job with one or two rounds.

All calibers have their advantages and disadvantages.

Usually a preference thing.
No. 308     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Mar 13, 2016 at 11:00 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Supposedly a .45 inherently has more stopping power and in most hands is more accurate than other calibers.


Have to totally disagree with the above portion I highlighted in red.

The .45 is actually LESS accurate in most hands due to the tremendous "kickback" of the weapon every time you fire it.

Every time one fires it one has to re-zone in to their intended target with a firearm that moves a much greater distance vertically every time it is fired.

I saw this proven when our Chief of Security at one company I worked at chose to re-qualify with his .45 instead a more manageable 9mm or .40 cal for example.

His rounds were all over the place, even missing the target sometimes, lol.

He failed and had to re-qualify again in order to pass.

The Instructor turned to us and said, "He should have brought a 9mm, much easier to control".

A .45 DOES have more stopping power, but is much harder to accurately control than smaller calibers.

One thing about a .45, you only need ONE well placed shot!

People have been known to survive being shot numerous times with a 9mm round, but a .45 can usually do the job with one or two rounds.

All calibers have their advantages and disadvantages.

Usually a preference thing.


I hear what you are saying, and there was a time I reasoned the same. Turned out to only be true in general for maybe a pellet gun or 22 caliber.

Now having considerable handgun experience with many calibers, .177 pellet to a .45 semi-auto. Having now fired and own something of most every caliber available in a semi-auto. And seeing others shoot most every caliber available, my personal experience is the opposite of what you state you have seen. Have also read many recent publications that state the opposite of what you express.

The fact that the weight of a firearm typically increases in frame weight from the lower caliber to the higher caliber resulting in a more heavy firearm inherently, lessens the impact of kickback on a shooter, resulting in the heavier caliber firearm being more accurate for most to use. Most firearms trainers are going to express that most higher caliber handguns are inherently more accurate for most users.

Probably the largest accuracy complaint of today's lightweight concealed carry .380 and 9mm handguns is that they are too light to absorb the kickback, thus not as easy and fast to get back on target with. Thus .40 and .45 are recommended for most those concerned about more precise accuracy.

For self-defense, most instructors now instruct to aim center mass. Simply due to the heavier weight of the firearm alone, a heavier caliber handgun is likely to remain on target more accurately than most lighter calibers in the hands of most users.

There is also a lot of reviews that state the smaller calibers are also not liked for sport shooting were as a firearm is potentially fired a lot. Users complain their hands quickly tire of absorbing the impact that the smaller caliber firearms do not have the inherent weight to absorb. Therefore even though more costly to use, they prefer the heavier caliber due to the frame absorbing more of the impact and not passing it on to their hands. Thus being able to shoot more often with their hands absorbing less impact.
No. 309     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Mar 13, 2016 at 12:26 PM     
A lot of women, disabled, and elderly are opting for these new lightweight .380 semi-autos. Only to learn that training beyond what was required to get their concealed carry ticket is required to be able to hit anything with it after the first shot.

They simply are not heavy enough for them to control the "kickback". Many are finding themselves back at the gun store trading the little .380 in on often a larger caliber and/or heavy revolver frame.

When you read comparisons/reviews of .380 semi-autos, the heavy framed traditionally larger framed ones are deemed are more accurate and preferable if going to stick with a .380 and desire accuracy. Such as a Walther PK380 has a frame and weight comparable to many traditional 9mm and .40.

Many are finding some of the new compacts so small they also cannot activate the slide easily to chamber a new round if need be. Simply too small to get a solid grasp on. Some simply opt for the firearm anyway and accept that fact, hoping they do need more than what was loaded in when someone else chambered the first round for them. Or they try to make sure they never fire the last round. Were as it may easier if they did, being that most slides lock open after the last round is fired. And likely easier to engage for many from that status than when fully closed.

With two of my small .380 semi-autos, after you eject the empty mag and slam in a new full mag, automatically chamber a round and close the slide. Most semi-autos do not do such.
No. 310     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Mar 21, 2016 at 4:26 PM     
Dunham's has a nice sale on brand name ammo. Today is the last day. I am headed over to load up on Winchester brand myself. Need at least 250 rounds for each caliber handgun I intend to take to the tactical firearms training next month. Still pondering if I will take the AR15 and my tactical shotgun also.

I had every intention of going to Gander Mountain who also have ammo on sale all week, but Dunham's has name brand sale priced as low as the lower quality and/or off brands at Gander Mountain.
No. 311     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Mar 21, 2016 at 8:52 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Dunham's has a nice sale on brand name ammo. Today is the last day. I am headed over to load up on Winchester brand myself. Need at least 250 rounds for each caliber handgun I intend to take to the tactical firearms training next month. Still pondering if I will take the AR15 and my tactical shotgun also.

I had every intention of going to Gander Mountain who also have ammo on sale all week, but Dunham's has name brand sale priced as low as the lower quality and/or off brands at Gander Mountain.


I would not call it a crowd, but there was a line to get the ammo at Dunham's. It did turn out to be an opportunity to make some contacts and introduce others to the Krav Maga Academy and the tactical firearms training program. Some guy noticed I was buying handgun ammo and noticed the emblem on my jacket. He started asking questions about what I shoot, how much training have I had and where, etc.. That kind of snowballed into several approaching me and then asking questions before I could get out of the place.

I am not paid staff for either the hand to hand self-defense program or the firearms program. But for each referral that signs up to attend a program, I get $35 per month credit towards my monthly cost of the programs I attend. But that was the farthest thing from my mind when this ignited. In fact, I failed to tell any of them to provide my name for the referral credit.
No. 312     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 60   on  Mar 21, 2016 at 9:54 PM     
I remember you talkin about the 38's
i have a heavy 45 colt frame that was only
bored out to be a 38, "unbelievable accuracy"

as far as the 45's i do my own loads and tend to
load on the lighter side of the spectrum.
No. 313     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Mar 23, 2016 at 4:30 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:I am not paid staff for either the hand to hand self-defense program or the firearms program.


LOL. There is now a paid staff position available. Which would pay me a salary as well as compensation for each new member joining, and provide my personal membership for free. But I simply cannot make the time commitment at this time.

It is my goal to eventually be a member of such a staff, simply too early for me. There are personal training and skills attainment I desire to acquire with the time I have available for such at the moment. Easier for me right now to simply assist with training when I am on location for my own training.
No. 314     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Mar 31, 2016 at 9:41 PM     
Renewed my USCCA/United States Concealed Carry Association membership/insurance today. They provided a discount from the rate I typically pay for a year and gave me 11 free bonuses just for renewing. T-shirt, books, three DVDs, firearms cleaning kit, cleaning mat and cloth, two magazine subscriptions, online access to all their educational resources and publications, etc..

I wanted to get this renewed prior to the weekend. I am attending an all day tactical class which involves live firearms in a group shooting as many as 200 rounds each. Just wanted to get the insurance back in place just in case there is an accidental incident.

Next I need to renew my NRA membership. I see I am also due on that one. They just sent me some renewal offer that includes a free NRA logo field gear bag.
No. 315     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 60   on  Mar 31, 2016 at 9:47 PM     
insurance Not mandatory to CC in TX
but with todays twisted libtard lawyers
it really might be a good thing to look in to.
No. 316     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Apr 5, 2016 at 5:01 AM     
crayons wrote:

I remember you talkin about the 38's
i have a heavy 45 colt frame that was only
bored out to be a 38, "unbelievable accuracy"

as far as the 45's i do my own loads and tend to
load on the lighter side of the spectrum.


A .45 is on the bucket list at some point. I want to get one by Rock Island Arsenal, hey, that's made here in IL!

I have been to the Rock Island Arsenal too buying stuff at Government Military Surplus Auctions. BIG place on a BIG Island!

Security wasn't too tight there when I went, but I hear it is now!
No. 317     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Apr 16, 2016 at 8:05 PM     
Just picked up 250 rounds of .40 for the next tactical handgun class. Thinking about acquiring a 9mm XD or Glock just for these classes. The ammo is considerably less cost. I currently own a 9mm Taurus, but it is simply too small and lightweight of a frame for the number of rounds fired in such a class. The hands would take quite a "beating" just due to moving the slide and from the recoil of firing that many rounds. Also my particular Taurus would require too many loaded mags just to keep up with the pace of such classes.
No. 318     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Apr 29, 2016 at 9:17 PM     
insular926 wrote:




http://www.bidgunner.com/


I finally checked this out a little further. Not sure I like their format.

These are penny auctions. Inexperienced auction buyers lose a lot of money on such auctions. You have to buy bids up front, and win or lose, whatever you bid is spent money out of your pocket.

For example; 50 bids cost $45. Once those 50 bids are used, that is $45 gone win or lose. There is an option to commit your losing bids for the value you paid for them towards purchase of an item at full posted cost. But that is the only way to recoup what you bid, but then likely pay more than market value for the item.

At best, I have only ever been able to break-even on such auctions by at least committing the cost of my losing bids towards buying something whether I wanted it or not.

I imagine if one developed a successful technique and/or bid a lot, they may eventually snag a real bargain.
No. 319     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Apr 29, 2016 at 9:23 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

insular926 wrote:




http://www.bidgunner.com/


I finally checked this out a little further. Not sure I like their format.

These are penny auctions. Inexperienced auction buyers lose a lot of money on such auctions. You have to buy bids up front, and win or lose, whatever you bid is spent money out of your pocket.

For example; 50 bids cost $45. Once those 50 bids are used, that is $45 gone win or lose. There is an option to commit your losing bids for the value you paid for them towards purchase of an item at full posted cost. But that is the only way to recoup what you bid, but then likely pay more than market value for the item.

At best, I have only ever been able to break-even on such auctions by at least committing the cost of my losing bids towards buying something whether I wanted it or not.

I imagine if one developed a successful technique and/or bid a lot, they may eventually snag a real bargain.


Actually, it appears you do not get full value of your paid for losing bids when you a buy at full posted price. You are only credited .50/bid, and have to pay the difference from posted price to claim the item.
No. 320     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Apr 29, 2016 at 10:12 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:

insular926 wrote:




http://www.bidgunner.com/


I finally checked this out a little further. Not sure I like their format.

These are penny auctions. Inexperienced auction buyers lose a lot of money on such auctions. You have to buy bids up front, and win or lose, whatever you bid is spent money out of your pocket.

For example; 50 bids cost $45. Once those 50 bids are used, that is $45 gone win or lose. There is an option to commit your losing bids for the value you paid for them towards purchase of an item at full posted cost. But that is the only way to recoup what you bid, but then likely pay more than market value for the item.

At best, I have only ever been able to break-even on such auctions by at least committing the cost of my losing bids towards buying something whether I wanted it or not.

I imagine if one developed a successful technique and/or bid a lot, they may eventually snag a real bargain.


Actually, it appears you do not get full value of your paid for losing bids when you a buy at full posted price. You are only credited .50/bid, and have to pay the difference from posted price to claim the item.


I don't know. I do see that someone did win a brand new Mossberg MVP 308Win today for $86. That is a $541 firearm retail.
No. 321     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Apr 30, 2016 at 9:10 AM     
insular926 wrote:
http://www.bidgunner.com/



I monitored a couple of those Bidgunner auctions over the past few hours. Learned a little better what you actually pay to win an item in their auctions.

Saw a S&W M&P Shield 9mm won for what they say was $10.76 versus retail of $390. A savings of $227.74.

But that is not really all that was paid for it. It took 303 bids before the item was won. Bidgunner only provides .50 credit per bid regardless of what you pre-paid for your bids. Pre-paid cost per bid is .90, unless you buy bids in quantities greater than 50 bids, win some bids, or are given some bids.

Anyway, 303 X .90 = $272.70 that Bidgunner took in at highest bid cost. Then whomever finally won pays the $10.76. Thus Bidgunner actually receives like $283.46 for the item.

Of course, the winning bidder did not pay $283.46 out of their pocket. Worst case, if there was only one other competing bidder, they paid $86.51. That price is arrived at by 303 bids X .50 credit per bid + $10.76. Additional costs are $15 shipping and whatever transfer fees your local FFL charges you to receive a firearms via their FFL license. Here locally that costs me any where from $20 to $35 depending on whom I deal with as the FFL.

Thus the winning bidder did get a great deal buying a $390 retail firearm for only $86.51 out of pocket or less. If there was at least two bidders bidding alternately, the winner paid around 50% less yet, depending on how many .90 cent or less bids it took them to win. It is feasible someone could have won for as little as $10.76 if they allowed at least two other bidders to initially bid, and then they came in and placed the winning bid if they used a free bid and only had to bid once to win.

I essentially watched one bidder come in and do just that. He waited until at least two bidders had bid for while and the auction got down to the last 10 seconds. He then came in and started bidding, winning 3 of the last 4 auctions. A $390 handgun for as little as $10.76, $77.05 of ammo for as little as .36, and a $50 Lowes gift card for as little as a $1.45. Someone else won the other auction of the 4, a $601 rifle for as little as $46.87.

Therefore, if one understands these auctions, there are real bargains to be had. I was talking with my bother-in-law, whom also resells a lot of merchandise online same as I do, says much of what he acquires to resell comes from penny auctions such as Bidgunner.
No. 322     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 102   on  May 2, 2016 at 11:31 PM     

Interesting site and info! Thank for popping up this thread ... !

I sure wish CA didn't have all these communist laws about gun ownership and the test one has to take prior to buying a new gun now is silly.

No. 323     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  May 3, 2016 at 6:18 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Anyway, 303 X .90 = $272.70 that Bidgunner took in at highest bid cost. Then whomever finally won pays the $10.76. Thus Bidgunner actually receives like $283.46 for the item.


I have come to realize that I misunderstood the winning data presented by BidGunner, or their effort is to display the data to mislead.

The $10.76 the auction was won at, actually correlates to 1076 bids placed. Thus BigGunner potentially took in $968.40 for a $390 item. 1076 X .90 = $968.40.

The 303 bids that I thought won the auction, was the actual number of bids the specific winner made to win the auction. Thus they potentially paid $283.46 for the item and not only $10.76 as the manner in which BidGunner presents the item sold for.

Since learning to look at the data in the manner revealing what a bidder actually pays, I am now realizing that some bidders have likely spent as much as 3-4 times the retail value of an item in an effort to win just one BidGunner auction. For example, I watched one particular bidder place at least $1200 to $1800 in bid cost, depending on what he actually paid for his bids, in an effort to win a $600 retail item, and still not win it.

Now I understand why all the "hoopla" about most penny auctions being "scams" and/or illegal gambling, but somehow the law has deemed many of them a legal auction means of selling items.

I watched an auction close last night that reaped BidGunner at least $2332.80 for a $524 retail item. BidGunner displays the item sold for $25.92. The uneducated observer on how penny auctions operate, likely thinks the winner of the auction did win the item for only $25.92. But the particular winner of that auction actually paid more like $300 for the item. Still a bargain for that particular individual on that one item, but a "windfall" for BidGunner.
No. 324     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  May 3, 2016 at 6:36 AM     
CAsandie wrote:


Interesting site and info! Thank for popping up this thread ... !

I sure wish CA didn't have all these communist laws about gun ownership and the test one has to take prior to buying a new gun now is silly.



See my above most recent post about the site. Yeah, if you are careful there are bargains to be had at the site.

Brad is the one that first posted of the particular site. I pray he understands how they actually operate and has not "lost" a lot of hard earned money there.
No. 325     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 102   on  May 3, 2016 at 11:24 PM     

Sure he has not. There is a gun show down here at Del Mar that a friend and I might be attending.

No. 326     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  May 4, 2016 at 7:18 PM     
I got a call today inviting me to become a local NRA certified firearm's instructor. Yesterday I got essentially the same invite from USCCA.
No. 327     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  May 8, 2016 at 11:26 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Just picked up 250 rounds of .40 for the next tactical handgun class. Thinking about acquiring a 9mm XD or Glock just for these classes. The ammo is considerably less cost. I currently own a 9mm Taurus, but it is simply too small and lightweight of a frame for the number of rounds fired in such a class. The hands would take quite a "beating" just due to moving the slide and from the recoil of firing that many rounds. Also my particular Taurus would require too many loaded mags just to keep up with the pace of such classes.


Completed the second handgun tactical class. Next class will not be until July. The lead instructor has been summoned to some other country to assist with instructing a special forces class.
No. 328     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  May 8, 2016 at 11:31 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

I got a call today inviting me to become a local NRA certified firearm's instructor. Yesterday I got essentially the same invite from USCCA.


Attending the first class in the NRA series of handgun classes this coming Wednesday. Actually, this will my second NRA certified class. I attended their "Basics of Personal Protection In The Home" as part of the requirements to obtain my concealed carry license.

Here in Michigan, I am required to also complete this first class, as well as a couple others, to be able to become certified to instruct concealed carry classes.
No. 329     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  May 10, 2016 at 10:23 AM     
I had to call this AM and cancel out on the NRA class. Priorities changed. I have been invited to an employment orientation Wednesday evening, and would not have returned home in time from the NRA class to be able to attend.
No. 330     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Jul 12, 2016 at 1:20 AM     
I bought a, "girly gun". :icon_eek::unsure:

An EAA Witness "Pavona". Although it is marketed towards Women and the brightly colored interior of the case it comes in certainly proves that it is certainly a gun for Men as well.

http://eaacorp.com/index.php/guns/witness-pavona-polymer-compact-by-tanfolgio-26

This polymer gun is available in 3 calibers, .40, 9mm, and .380.

I chose 9mm.

This gun is both single OR double action! You can operate it in either mode.

List Price: $400.

(I paid $320, 20% down, with the balance spread out over 6 payments on 90 day Layaway. Bought it from an out of State dealer so will have to use a local FFL holder for the transfer for $30 extra.)

Shipping is free.

It is a "Compact" sized gun, not too big, not too small. 3.6" barrel length.

Comes with 13 round magazine (+1 in the chamber).

It comes in a number of color schemes as well. I chose black with gold sparkles.





It is made by the Italian Gun Company "Tanfoglio". They have been making guns since the early 1900's and are well respected. EAA - European American Armory is the Importer.

Italian Firearm Manufacturer

"Tanfoglio is the Italian manufacturer of several of the EAA Corp. offerings. Including the WITNESS line of pistols, highly revered in the competition world.

The WITNESS line of pistols were the firearms of choice for the 2014 Production World Championship Men's Gold, Silver and Bronze medal winners as well as the Women's Gold medal winner.

Tanfoglio is an Italian firearms manufacturer founded in the early 1900’s and located in Gardone Val Trompia, Italy. Tanfoglio is imported to the United States by European American Armory.

The Witness line is well respected amongst competitive firearm enthusiasts and has achieved great success in the competition world, bringing home 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place in the Men’s as well as 1st place in the Women’s divisions of the 2014 Production World Shoot Championship. Tanfoglio also produces an Xtreme series of their popular competition pistols, created in cooperation with competitive shooting superstar, and Six-time World Champion, Eric Grauffel.

Every Witness Xtreme pistol is hand-tuned by the Master Gunsmiths from Tanfoglio’s Custom Shop in Italy and coated with Industrial Ceramic Coating for a longer life. The Witness Xtreme series has been likened to a fine sports car or elite race horse as they have been recognized as premiere, top shelf competitive pistols with limited availability and expert craftsmanship.

Alongside these expertly crafted competition pistols, Tanfoglio produces several powerful home and self-defense firearms as well the innovative Pavona line of pistols, winner of two NRA Golden Bullseye awards at the 2015 NRA Annual Meeting in Nashville, TN (“Women’s Innovation Product of The Year 2015” –SHOOTING ILLUSTRATED & AMERICAN RIFLEMAN).

The diverse offerings imported by EAA Corp. make Tanfoglio firearms the perfect choice for any user, from personal protection seekers to competition enthusiasts, EAA Corp. has the gun you need."
No. 331     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Jul 12, 2016 at 1:31 AM     
The EAA Witness Pavona is modeled after the CZ-75, a Czech made gun, the CZ-75 is the 2nd most cloned model handgun in the world.

So many of the parts are likely interchangeable with the CZ-75.
No. 332     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Jul 12, 2016 at 1:39 AM     
Here it is in Sapphire with silver sparkles:



In, "Fandango" color with silver sparkles:



Comes in a duotone charcoal/silver color too.

No. 333     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Jul 12, 2016 at 2:48 AM     
Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing: The EAA Witness Pavona Compact
http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2015/10/wolf-in-sheeps-clothing-the-eaa-witness-pavona-compact/#eaa-witness-pavona-compact-7
No. 334     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Jul 12, 2016 at 3:39 AM     
Comes in Imperial Purple too...

No. 335     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Jul 14, 2016 at 2:33 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

I got a call today inviting me to become a local NRA certified firearm's instructor. Yesterday I got essentially the same invite from USCCA.


The guy who replaced me at the 4 story corp office building was a certified NRA Instructor. He was an ex Bobbie from England. He had a CCW permit also.
No. 336     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Jul 18, 2016 at 2:37 PM     
Gander Mountain sells that Pavona Pistol for $399.95.

So even with the FFL transfer fee of $30 plus $320 for the gun I will save about $50.

Then there is no IL State Tax either so save on that too!

Gander Mountain, unless a Firearm is on sale at the time, has rather high prices.

Right now they have some really good prices on certain firearms on sale. Ammo too.

And I would advise you to stock up now on both as much as you can.

If Hillary is elected, Firearms owners are in trouble.
No. 337     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Aug 1, 2016 at 4:22 AM     
Found an FFL holder who only charges $22 for a transfer. And in a convenient location for me too.

There is one guy who does them who is only 1.5 blocks from my house.

But that's a little too close for comfort.
No. 338     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Aug 2, 2016 at 10:43 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Gander Mountain sells that Pavona Pistol for $399.95.

So even with the FFL transfer fee of $30 plus $320 for the gun I will save about $50.

Then there is no IL State Tax either so save on that too!

Gander Mountain, unless a Firearm is on sale at the time, has rather high prices.

Right now they have some really good prices on certain firearms on sale. Ammo too.

And I would advise you to stock up now on both as much as you can.

If Hillary is elected, Firearms owners are in trouble.


You may want to check Sportman's Guide online. They essentially are Gander Mountain with most often having lower prices advertised than their Gander Mountain webpage on the same item. Also with no interest 4 equal payments.
No. 339     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Aug 2, 2016 at 2:12 PM     
Yes I have ordered from the sportsmans guide for years. I regularly browse their site. They do have good sales.
No. 340     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  CAsandie   Gender: F   Age: 102   on  Aug 2, 2016 at 3:14 PM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Comes in Imperial Purple too...



Are them silver sparkles?! (pretty purdy)!



No. 341     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Aug 2, 2016 at 4:26 PM     
CAsandie wrote:

Are them silver sparkles?! (pretty purdy)!



Yes, silver sparkles.

No. 342     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Aug 6, 2016 at 11:49 PM     
Just saw this on Facebook posted by Guns.com. While the gun did belong to a Nazi it is made by Walther, who still makes the ever popular Walther PPK, the same gun James Bond preferred.

http://www.guns.com/2016/08/05/nazi-officer-hermann-goerings-gold-plated-pistol-up-for-bid/

Nazi officer Hermann Goering’s gold-plated pistol up for bid


Luftwaffe Commander Hermann Goering’s Walther PPK is set to be auctioned off in mid-September. (Photo: Rock Island Auction Company)

"A one-of-a-kind, gold-plated Walther PPK once belonging to Nazi officer Hermann Goering will be auctioned off by Rock Island Auction Company in September.

The Walther PPK, deemed the most historic Walther the auction site has ever had up for bid, is chambered in 7.65 mm auto. The pistol has just over a 3-inch barrel and features three piece ivory grip panels factory carved in a traditional Germanic oak leaf and acorn pattern inlayed on a gold-plated frame.

With the initials “HG” emblazoned on the left grip, the Walther also prominently showcases the Goering family crest. The crest was created by Hermann Goering himself after WWI. It features an armored fist holding a large ring with the words “Der Eiseme,” Goering’s nickname, which means “Iron One.”

Included with the Walther is a large ring worn by Goering at parties and a pair of cuff links, both have the Goering family seal and crest engraved into them.

hermann goering rock island auction



A ring and cuff links worn by Goering will also be auctioned off alongside the pistol. (Photo: Rock Island Auction Company)

With an estimated value between $250,000 and $400,000, the Walther PPK, cuff links and ring are to be auctioned off beginning Sept. 9. The auction closes a few days later on Sept. 11.

Goering, the man behind the pistol was born in 1893 in Rosenheim, Bavaria. The son of a judge, he entered the German army in 1914 as an Infantry Lieutenant. He was later transferred to the air force where he distinguished himself as an air ace with 22 downed Allied planes under his belt.

hermann goering nazi party



Hermann Goering quickly rose in rank in the Nazi party, eventually making his way into Hitler’s inner circle. (Photo: Rock Island Auction Company)

After World War I, Goering became a show flier and pilot in Denmark and Sweden. When the Nazi Party came calling in 1922 Goering jumped at the chance to head back onto the battlefield. Quickly rising in rank due to his powerful personality, Goering eventually claimed the accolades of Commander of the Luftwaffe, President of the Reichstag, Prime Minister of Russia and Hitler’s designated successor.

Goering was arrested by Allied forces in May 1945 and put on trial in Nuremberg for war crimes in 1946. He was charged and eventually found guilty of conspiracy to wage war, crimes against peace, war crimes and crimes against humanity. He was sentenced to die by hanging on Oct. 15, 1946.

Two hours before his designated execution, Goering committed suicide by cyanide pill in his Nuremberg cell."
No. 343     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Aug 13, 2016 at 10:15 PM     
As bad as I desire a compact .45 XD, my next handgun is likely going to be a 9mm Glock 26 Gen 4. I am really impressed with them from my experience in the tactical training. Not necessarily this specific model, but most all the military and law enforcement folks in the classes are carrying Glocks.

Those in class with 9mm handguns appear to outshoot most the rest of us as far as overall accuracy goes. Except ironically for the real newbies in class that have not handled a firearm as much as many of the rest of us. They are consistently more accurate with their heavier frame higher caliber handguns except when the "exercise" requires immediate consecutive firing as fast as you can pull the trigger. It is then back to the 9mm and .40 carriers being more accurate, especially if the handgun is of a somewhat heavier frame design for a 9mm or .40.

No. 344     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Aug 13, 2016 at 10:19 PM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Just saw this on Facebook posted by Guns.com. While the gun did belong to a Nazi it is made by Walther, who still makes the ever popular Walther PPK, the same gun James Bond preferred.


I own two Walthers. As much as I like them, they are my most "troublesome" handguns requiring the most attention to keep in reliable condition. And the only brand I have ever experienced manufacturer defects.
No. 345     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 60   on  Aug 13, 2016 at 10:44 PM     
cowboy, you're the only person i've ever seen
playin musical pistols, i hope you find a good fit
sooner than later. find one that works and stick to it,
ya know it?
No. 346     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Aug 13, 2016 at 10:53 PM     
crayons wrote:

cowboy, you're the only person i've ever seen
playin musical pistols, i hope you find a good fit
sooner than later. find one that works and stick to it,
ya know it?


For concealed carry, I carry the same handgun pretty much 24/7. Sometimes my manner of dress may call for something else depending on concealability.

For recreational, training, whatever use one may desire to call it, I do opt for a variety of firearms simply to be currently experienced with a variety. Not to mention my tactical classes involve use of a variety of tactical firearms from various styles of handguns, rifles, shotguns, etc.. I cannot always dictate what the students are going to arrive with. A class with 12 students may involve 12 different handguns. Minimum caliber and number of rounds to bring is about our only specification other than for the tactical classes one must already hold their concealed carry credentials.
No. 347     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  PlowMan   Gender: M   Age: 62   on  Aug 14, 2016 at 12:40 AM     
I find it fascinating to listen to my southern neighbors talk about guns as if they were just tools.

Up here in Liberal land many people seem to think that guns are living things with evil intent. That my friends is the end result of gun control and anti gun propaganda.

We are not allowed to own handguns, except for target practice at an approved gun range, and may only transport them to such a range if we have the appropriate paperwork for that one trip and a safe to carry it in.
Cause it might get loose and cause bloody mayhem.

We are allowed some rifles, if we are licensed to own them, and if they fit a very narrow definition of what a hunting rifle is.

Nothing stays the same they say. I can tell you, this is true, and often the changes come so stealthily you don't even see them coming.
No. 348     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Aug 14, 2016 at 2:49 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

As bad as I desire a compact .45 XD, my next handgun is likely going to be a 9mm Glock 26 Gen 4. I am really impressed with them from my experience in the tactical training. Not necessarily this specific model, but most all the military and law enforcement folks in the classes are carrying Glocks.

Those in class with 9mm handguns appear to outshoot most the rest of us as far as overall accuracy goes. Except ironically for the real newbies in class that have not handled a firearm as much as many of the rest of us. They are consistently more accurate with their heavier frame higher caliber handguns except when the "exercise" requires immediate consecutive firing as fast as you can pull the trigger. It is then back to the 9mm and .40 carriers being more accurate, especially if the handgun is of a somewhat heavier frame design for a 9mm or .40.



I had a Glock 26 for a few years. A great gun but my hands were a bit too big for it. I did not like the fact that the lower part of my hand was well below the frame. Even with the magazine extension from Pierce.

So I sold it.
No. 349     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Aug 14, 2016 at 8:22 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:

As bad as I desire a compact .45 XD, my next handgun is likely going to be a 9mm Glock 26 Gen 4. I am really impressed with them from my experience in the tactical training. Not necessarily this specific model, but most all the military and law enforcement folks in the classes are carrying Glocks.

Those in class with 9mm handguns appear to outshoot most the rest of us as far as overall accuracy goes. Except ironically for the real newbies in class that have not handled a firearm as much as many of the rest of us. They are consistently more accurate with their heavier frame higher caliber handguns except when the "exercise" requires immediate consecutive firing as fast as you can pull the trigger. It is then back to the 9mm and .40 carriers being more accurate, especially if the handgun is of a somewhat heavier frame design for a 9mm or .40.



I had a Glock 26 for a few years. A great gun but my hands were a bit too big for it. I did not like the fact that the lower part of my hand was well below the frame. Even with the magazine extension from Pierce.

So I sold it.


I have not had any serious amount of hands on time with a Glock. Only know that I see and hear it is the most popular brand amongst the serious tactical folks. Especially with the law enforcement and military folks in class. The only other handgun brands I see even coming close with the law enforcement and military folks are the Smith & Wesson M&Ps and the XD models by Springfield.

A Glock 26 is ranked as the most sought-after concealed carry option, and the Glock 26 Gen 4 specifically is quickly becoming the most widely issued side carry for law enforcement and military world-wide. There is a 33 round magazine for the thing. That may add to the appeal.

The Gen 4 now includes Glock's Modular Back Strap design which lets you instantly customize its grip to adapt to an individual shooter's hand size. Not sure if to a enough degree to accommodate your needs.
No. 350     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Aug 14, 2016 at 10:48 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Yes I have ordered from the sportsmans guide for years. I regularly browse their site. They do have good sales.


A large number of my drop ship orders are regularly fulfilled by Sportmans Guide.
No. 351     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Aug 15, 2016 at 7:58 PM     
Gander Mountain currently has Ruger LCP .380's on sale for only $199. That's a really good price!
No. 352     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Aug 17, 2016 at 4:48 AM     
CAsandie wrote:

Bullfighter279 wrote:

Comes in Imperial Purple too...



Are them silver sparkles?! (pretty purdy)!





Sorry, but this gun is very illegal in California and would land you in Prison for merely possessing or owning it.

It is over 10 rounds AND firearms in CA have to be on a special list approved by the communist State.

Ironically, there ARE firearms from 3 different companies that are legal there in CA but ILLEGAL here in IL! :unsure:

Any gun by Phoenix, Cobra, or Heritage Firearms is illegal here.

The reason they are banned here is because they are low cost, have a low melting point and made of a zinc alloy housing.

The real reason they cooked up this legislation though is to keep them out of the hands of the gangbangers who would be buying them up like hotcakes because of the low prices.

One model I would like is this tiny Phoenix HP22A in all black: http://www.phoenix-arms.com/pages/hp22a



Which is legal there in CA but illegal here in IL.

They are only about $132 or so. Maybe if/when I move out of State to a State they are legal in I will order one.

No. 353     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Aug 17, 2016 at 10:50 AM     
I am about to order my Glock. I would like it in time for my next tactical class in September, not to mention I am looking to start attendance in the Fall at a tactical firearms academy in Ann Arbor. I prefer to begin those classes with a Glock as my primary sidearm.

Some peers are attempting to steer me into the Glock 19 Gen4 versus the Glock 26 Gen4, but my hands on experience thus far finds me preferring a more compact frame, simply with some weight to it. The standard high-capacity magazine of the 19, 15 rounds, is tempting though. And the 19 was my initial Glock preference before the Gen4 of the 26 hit the market.
No. 354     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Sep 7, 2016 at 11:08 PM     
Got my forms together today to apply for my FFL. Started to do this some years back, but I was working pretty much 24/7 at the time and life simply got in the way. Also there was too many hoops to jump through to satisfy local authorities such as ability to safely secure firearms to their liking. I now have 5 firearms safes and looking at a sixth, as well as have several mobile/portable firearms safes.
No. 355     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 60   on  Sep 7, 2016 at 11:18 PM     
interesting, this Will be a DHS honey pot
very soon with posts like this...ya know it...

No. 356     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 60   on  Sep 7, 2016 at 11:27 PM     
all one needs to do is start reposting
Sinaloan drug cartel bounties off the internet and every
contractor/mercenary signature lookin for work will draw
homeland insecurity here like the demonic flies they are.

oh well...not my problem
No. 357     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Sep 8, 2016 at 2:48 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Got my forms together today to apply for my FFL. Started to do this some years back, but I was working pretty much 24/7 at the time and life simply got in the way. Also there was too many hoops to jump through to satisfy local authorities such as ability to safely secure firearms to their liking. I now have 5 firearms safes and looking at a sixth, as well as have several mobile/portable firearms safes.


I thought you already had an FFL and were selling Firearms on the side? :unsure:
No. 358     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Sep 8, 2016 at 3:18 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Also picked up a Benjamin Trail NP .177 Caliber Pellet Air Pistol today. These babies are difficult to locate here in Michigan, and most out of state dealer are prohibited from shipping them to Michigan to anyone without an FFL. At the moment they are regulated in Michigan like any other handgun with a silencer. Come July 1 this law changes in Michigan.

This is one sweet pellet gun. It is a break barrel with a nitrogen piston, therefore no mechanical spring nor CO2 needed:



IL has a similar law concerning Air Guns.

Anything over 700fps OR anything over .177cal is considered a firearm and you have to have an IL FOID card in order to purchase or possess one:

https://www.gatguns.com/guns/air-guns-air-rifles
No. 359     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Sep 8, 2016 at 3:24 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Before I walked into the door of the local police station to drop off the PSR (pistol sales record) for latest purchase, I happened to glance down and catch the dealer "fat fingered" the transaction date. Knowing the PSR would not be accepted with an incorrect date, I went back to the dealer to get a new one. All "I"s have to be dotted and all "T"s crossed on these things or they will not be accepted. They will not even be accepted with an error crossed out and the correct info added to the side. Has to be a completed and properly signed error free form.


You have to report pistol purchases there?

Sheesh I though IL laws were draconian!
No. 360     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Sep 8, 2016 at 3:26 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

While at the police station I noticed a sign that they had gun locks available. I asked what kind and how much? She handed me a nice keyed cable lock. Again, I asked "how much"? She replied "Free".

Turns out my local police department participates in Project Child Safe. They provide free gun locks disbursed via several organizations all over the USA.

http://www.projectchildsafe.org/

Sure even the good quality Master Lock cable ones do not really cost much, less than $5 each, thus I almost felt guilty to take it for free.

I got online to see what the deal is, and it turns out if I feel that guilty, I can contribute financially to support Project Child Safe by making a donation via that website link.


My Stepfather a number of years ago gave me a number of free gun locks their dept was giving away through this program.
No. 361     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Sep 8, 2016 at 3:45 AM     
Patrick wrote:

When I adopted my kids from Texas, I had to certify that I had no operable firearms. So, as required, I stored my shotgun and rifle (disassembled), got rid of all my ammunition and stored the parts in separate locked storage in compliance for the last 17 years. As a side note, I also had to promise not to spank the kids.

Now that my youngest son will be 18 in 8 days, I have applied for a concealed carry permit and will have a 9mm for my personal protection, as well as for sport shooting and clays.

I have no intention to carry any weapon as a normal part of my day, nor do I wish to inflict harm on any other person. However, I want the option to protect myself as needed and I want to be legal.


What a draconian law.

And how on earth do they expect you to protect your children if an armed attacker broke into your home hell bent on killing you and raping your daughter or stealing everything you own? :unsure::icon_rolleyes:

No. 362     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Sep 8, 2016 at 4:20 AM     
hhh wrote:



I've been shot two different times, and stabbed once.
I still have no use for a gun.

I would rather get shot again, than stand in front of Jesus with blood on my hands.



:icon_rolleyes:

So confused...
No. 363     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 102   on  Sep 9, 2016 at 10:22 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:

Before I walked into the door of the local police station to drop off the PSR (pistol sales record) for latest purchase, I happened to glance down and catch the dealer "fat fingered" the transaction date. Knowing the PSR would not be accepted with an incorrect date, I went back to the dealer to get a new one. All "I"s have to be dotted and all "T"s crossed on these things or they will not be accepted. They will not even be accepted with an error crossed out and the correct info added to the side. Has to be a completed and properly signed error free form.


You have to report pistol purchases there?

Sheesh I though IL laws were draconian!


But you have to report the purchase of an air gun.

I am not sure what year it changed here in Michigan, but all firearms purchases and/or transfer of ownership have to now be reported, other than air guns as of July last year. Long rifles and shotguns used to not have to be reported, but they do now. Handguns have had to be reported as far back as I can recall.

Only reason I had to report the purchase of the air gun I purchased, was it includes what is defined as a silencer. But apparently as of July last year, no air gun transfers now have to be reported here in Michigan.
No. 364     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Oct 12, 2016 at 3:54 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Bullfighter279 wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:

Before I walked into the door of the local police station to drop off the PSR (pistol sales record) for latest purchase, I happened to glance down and catch the dealer "fat fingered" the transaction date. Knowing the PSR would not be accepted with an incorrect date, I went back to the dealer to get a new one. All "I"s have to be dotted and all "T"s crossed on these things or they will not be accepted. They will not even be accepted with an error crossed out and the correct info added to the side. Has to be a completed and properly signed error free form.


You have to report pistol purchases there?

Sheesh I though IL laws were draconian!


But you have to report the purchase of an air gun.

I am not sure what year it changed here in Michigan, but all firearms purchases and/or transfer of ownership have to now be reported, other than air guns as of July last year. Long rifles and shotguns used to not have to be reported, but they do now. Handguns have had to be reported as far back as I can recall.

Only reason I had to report the purchase of the air gun I purchased, was it includes what is defined as a silencer. But apparently as of July last year, no air gun transfers now have to be reported here in Michigan.


We don't have to report the purchase of any air guns here.

We DO have to show an IL FOID card in order to purchase one though.

When purchasing a gun here in IL the, "type" of firearm is not reported to L.E. Agencies.

There are exceptions in some Cities though like Chicago, etc. Some of those larger Cities have Ordinances requiring you to report the type of Firearm you purchased, make, model, serial # etc. Some Cities that law only applies to Handguns and not long rifles.

Many FFL Dealers refuse to sell to anyone in Chicago period due to the jumble of laws there.
No. 365     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 54   on  Oct 12, 2016 at 3:59 PM     
CAsandie wrote:


Interesting site and info! Thank for popping up this thread ... !

I sure wish CA didn't have all these communist laws about gun ownership and the test one has to take prior to buying a new gun now is silly.



One doesn't have to take any test here.

But they do have many more pages of "paperwork" one must wade through, read, and sign than they used to years ago when things were far simpler and more sane.
No. 366     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jun 21, 2017 at 9:53 AM     
Have been wanting to pick up a cheap Hi Point .45 for years and now I find out ALL Hi Point Firearms are recently banned in IL due to that stupid, "low melting point law" that was cooked up years ago to basically ban all cheap forms of firearms in IL in an attempt to keep them out of the hands of the poor(who ironically often need them the most).

Hi Points were sold in all the Gun shops, Gander Mountain, Cabelaa's, etc for YEARS here with no issues or problems!

Now looking online I see they cannot be sold in IL. Someone must have actually taken the time to melt one down and then started reporting it to the State Authorities.

You cannot beat them for the price and they do work well with name brand ammo.

It is amazing it took all these years for someone to finally figure out the frames have a low melting point thus placing them under IL's draconian law which bans Phoenix, Cobra, Heritage, and a few others due to low melting point.

Hi Point Firearms are quite safe and the barrels are +P rated so safety is not the issue there.

The law was designed years ago to go after "cheap guns" in an attempt to get and keep as many off the street out of poor folks hands. The law targets guns made with the, "cheap soft metal parts" such as slide, frame, etc so that only more expensive guns can be sold.

Well guess I have to wait until I move out of State before I can own a Hi Point! :headbang:
No. 367     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 10, 2017 at 4:46 PM     
Just came back from picking up a handgun from a local FFL Dealer.

He and his Wife are likeable. He is retired from the local Sheriff's Dept for 15 years and the local city Police for another 15 years.

A local city cop popped in while I was there. He stopped by to see if his AR15 lower was in yet he ordered from Palmetto State Armory. They have the cheapest AR stuff around it seems.
No. 368     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Jul 10, 2017 at 6:08 PM     
I have a brand new AR15 I have yet to shoot.
No. 369     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 14, 2017 at 3:34 AM     
Always wanted a Bersa Firestorm. Never got around to getting one.

But my latest addition is a Bersa Thunder .380cc Parkerized.

Bersa guns are made in Argentina, and are very good quality for the price, a mid priced firearm.

The cc model has some differences from the regular Thunder series.

Being it is designed for concealed carry, it has low profile sights, a recessed Hammer. No sharp edges to catch onto your clothing when withdrawing it. And it is SA or DA.

It comes with a security key for locking it in the safe position but I won't be using that thing and I don't believe in them, unless you have kids or something I suppose.

The regular safety lever is sufficient for me.

Ratings and reviews are high for this model. It is actually modeled after the Walther PPK, the model that James Bond made famous, lol. I like the contours of this model. And they are reasonably priced.

8 rounds +1, and very lightweight. I really like the way it fits in my hand. Better than the Glock 26 did. There is just enough for my little pinkie to rest on the mag and lower frame.

I have read there is an extension available out there for your pinkie though.

This will likely be the only .380 I will ever own.

No. 370     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 14, 2017 at 9:51 PM     
It appears Cabela's is much closer to work here than I thought!

It is only 6.5 miles from the Bus Terminal or about 3.5 miles if I take a close to there.

So I know where I can get cheap ammo on sale now since Gander Mountain is no more.

Coolio.
No. 371     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 25, 2017 at 10:36 PM     
Went to WallyWorld today to pick up some ammo for the above Bersa Thunder.

I was impressed with walmart's wide selection of ammo available, even megapacks and full ammo cans. They also sold bare ammo cans too for about $12 something.

Back during the Obama regime the shelves were virtually stripped bare.

You have to give Oblama credit for one thing he was likely America's best gun salesman ever!

They had good deals in cheap Russian Tula ammo too.

I picked up some Remington copper jacketed ball ammo for now.

Will head to the nearby range next week sometime in order to break it in.

After firing a few hundred rounds through it to loosen it up i'll switch to Federal HydraShock hollow point ammo as a self-defense round, (assuming it handles that ammo ok)
No. 372     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Jul 26, 2017 at 12:21 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

After firing a few hundred rounds through it to loosen it up i'll switch to Federal HydraShock hollow point ammo as a self-defense round, (assuming it handles that ammo ok)


No matter what caliber, I have had issues with Federal ammo being very "dirty". I no longer purchase any caliber of Federal.
No. 373     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 26, 2017 at 12:46 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Bullfighter279 wrote:

After firing a few hundred rounds through it to loosen it up i'll switch to Federal HydraShock hollow point ammo as a self-defense round, (assuming it handles that ammo ok)


No matter what caliber, I have had issues with Federal ammo being very "dirty". I no longer purchase any caliber of Federal.


Well a quick cleaning after shooting should take care of that problem.
No. 374     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 26, 2017 at 1:09 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

I have a brand new AR15 I have yet to shoot.


Have to drive a bit here to find an outdoor Rifle Range. There are a few, one halfway across the state.

And the official IL State Rifle Association rifle range. That is south of me, south of where I used to live in a small Town. It's out in the boonies near the Kankakee river.

They allow camping at that one too, with 24/7 keycard access to that, a big plus.

http://www.isra.org/Participate/YourMembership/JointheRange.aspx
No. 375     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Jul 26, 2017 at 8:13 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:

Bullfighter279 wrote:

After firing a few hundred rounds through it to loosen it up i'll switch to Federal HydraShock hollow point ammo as a self-defense round, (assuming it handles that ammo ok)


No matter what caliber, I have had issues with Federal ammo being very "dirty". I no longer purchase any caliber of Federal.


Well a quick cleaning after shooting should take care of that problem.


LOL. I do not get to shoot but just a few rounds to no more than 50 of Federal and have to clean. Were as I can shoot 300-500 rounds of Remington or Winchester at a typical tactical class and not have to clean until I am done.

We were informed in my first ever handgun class taught by law enforcement that Federal is most often "dirty" ammo. Check a few of the firearms forums and you will read of many commenting on the "dirty" issue with Federal ammo.
No. 376     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Kari   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 26, 2017 at 10:52 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Bullfighter279 wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:

Bullfighter279 wrote:

After firing a few hundred rounds through it to loosen it up i'll switch to Federal HydraShock hollow point ammo as a self-defense round, (assuming it handles that ammo ok)


No matter what caliber, I have had issues with Federal ammo being very "dirty". I no longer purchase any caliber of Federal.


Well a quick cleaning after shooting should take care of that problem.


LOL. I do not get to shoot but just a few rounds to no more than 50 of Federal and have to clean. Were as I can shoot 300-500 rounds of Remington or Winchester at a typical tactical class and not have to clean until I am done.

We were informed in my first ever handgun class taught by law enforcement that Federal is most often "dirty" ammo. Check a few of the firearms forums and you will read of many commenting on the "dirty" issue with Federal ammo.


Dan only uses Remington. Clean and reliable.
No. 377     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Kari   Gender: F   Age: 103   on  Jul 26, 2017 at 11:01 AM     
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — California's efforts to strengthen what already are some of the nation's strictest gun laws took two blows this week, the latest coming when a federal judge blocked a law set to take effect Saturday that would have barred gun owners from possessing high-capacity ammunition magazines.

The judge ruled Thursday that the ban approved by the Legislature and California voters last year takes away gun owners' Second Amendment rights and amounts to the government seizing people's private property without compensation.

Allowing the law to take effect would have given thousands of otherwise law-abiding citizens what San Diego-based U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez called an untenable choice: "Become an outlaw or dispossess one's self of lawfully acquired property."

He issued a preliminary injunction blocking the law from taking effect while he considers the underlying lawsuit filed by the National Rifle Association-affiliated California Rifle & Pistol Association.

Earlier this week, California regulators temporarily blocked proposed new rules on assault weapons submitted by Attorney General Xavier Becerra in May. The Office of Administrative Law said Becerra went too far in trying to impose the new regulations without allowing for public comment.

Becerra's office is developing regulations on how current owners of soon-to-be-illegal assault-style weapons can keep them if they're registered starting in July 2018.

Becerra, who also is defending the high-capacity magazine ban, criticized the San Diego judge's decision without saying what he will do next on either setback.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2017-06-30/californias-gun-control-efforts-suffer-2-legal-setbacks
No. 378     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 26, 2017 at 3:41 PM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Just came back from picking up a handgun from a local FFL Dealer.

He and his Wife are likeable. He is retired from the local Sheriff's Dept for 15 years and the local city Police for another 15 years.

A local city cop popped in while I was there. He stopped by to see if his AR15 lower was in yet he ordered from Palmetto State Armory. They have the cheapest AR stuff around it seems.


The old FFL dealer is legally blind, needs jeweler's lupe to read. He had had a stroke which affected his vision.

He carried a pair of cuffs in an opentop case on his belt, as well as his firearm of course.

We chatted and traded stories for awhile before I sauntered off on the Bicycle, gun in backpack. Yes that's legal here in IL as long as you have it in a case and unloaded during transport.
No. 379     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 26, 2017 at 3:51 PM     
A bunch of items I had ordered today arrived.

A Pistol Crossbow, complete with Bolts. It was unbelievably low priced, couldn't resist for what they were asking for it.

A few collapsible Batons of various types. One of our guards wants to buy one. I already own 2, one an ASP, the other a generic, as well as 2 Fiberglass batons, one is a riot baton with a steel ball pommel on the end. That one was issued to me by the 1st security company I worked for. They let me keep it, as well as all my other duty gear when I left.

The President of that company said, "I certainly earned it!"

They were sad and disappointed to see me go, lol. Got a much bigger raise offer with the 2nd company, and that's how I hopped on board with the rr's.

Anyway, a few more neat folding knives, some survival gear, and a few other other doo-dads.

Still waiting on a large pepper spray order.
No. 380     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 28, 2017 at 2:40 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Bullfighter279 wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:

Bullfighter279 wrote:

After firing a few hundred rounds through it to loosen it up i'll switch to Federal HydraShock hollow point ammo as a self-defense round, (assuming it handles that ammo ok)


No matter what caliber, I have had issues with Federal ammo being very "dirty". I no longer purchase any caliber of Federal.


Well a quick cleaning after shooting should take care of that problem.


LOL. I do not get to shoot but just a few rounds to no more than 50 of Federal and have to clean. Were as I can shoot 300-500 rounds of Remington or Winchester at a typical tactical class and not have to clean until I am done.

We were informed in my first ever handgun class taught by law enforcement that Federal is most often "dirty" ammo. Check a few of the firearms forums and you will read of many commenting on the "dirty" issue with Federal ammo.


Personally, I could care less about Federal being dirty ammo.

I practice with others then pop in some Hydrashocks for possible use against attackers.

Hydrashock ammo is well proven as a JHP with stopping power, and not too pricey either. I won't need to pull the trigger very many times to stop an intruder/attacker since I am a crackshot with pretty accurate aim. So after shooting 1-3 or more rounds the gun is not going to get very dirty...

My life is more important than a dirty gun afterwards, lol.
No. 381     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 28, 2017 at 2:43 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Bullfighter279 wrote:

Just came back from picking up a handgun from a local FFL Dealer.

He and his Wife are likeable. He is retired from the local Sheriff's Dept for 15 years and the local city Police for another 15 years.

A local city cop popped in while I was there. He stopped by to see if his AR15 lower was in yet he ordered from Palmetto State Armory. They have the cheapest AR stuff around it seems.


The old FFL dealer is legally blind, needs jeweler's lupe to read. He had had a stroke which affected his vision.

He carried a pair of cuffs in an opentop case on his belt, as well as his firearm of course.

We chatted and traded stories for awhile before I suantered off on the Bicycle, gun in backpack. Yes that's legal here in IL as long as you have it in a case and unloaded during transport.


Looking at his business card I see he is (or was) an NRA Instructor as well.

With his vision problem though I question whether he would be able to even see the target now. :shades:
No. 382     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 28, 2017 at 3:09 AM     
I have to use my Vacation pay up, will take a vacation after my anniversary date coming up. So I just bought a Beretta PX4 Storm type F. (Full size)

This firearm has been on my bucket list for years, so I finally decided to invest in one. I held one in my hand years ago at Cabela's and it fits it perfectly, very ergonomic!

Got it for $469. Mine comes with a 17 round mag but it will take 14, 17 or 20 round factory mags.

http://www.beretta.com/en-us/px4-storm-full/





PX4 Storm Double/Single-Action Semiauto

"The NATO-certified Beretta Px4 Storm double/single-action semiauto is the culmination Beretta’s experience in engineering pistols for military and law enforcement.

Absolute durability, reliability, ergonomics and interchangeability of parts have made it the choice of military and police professionals around the world. Its ease of use, safety of operation and sleek lines are also causing it to be a favorite for self- and home defense as well as for concealed carry. Available in a number of powerful calibers, the PX4 Storm is a handgun that will keep delivering premium Beretta performance even after years of hard use.

Ultra-Durable, Ultra-Safe for Concealed Carry and Home Defense

Designed to meet the most stringent military standards of durability, the PX4 has been reported to fire well over 150,000 rounds with zero part breakages. Besides the essential simplicity of its design (fewer parts=fewer and more solid components bearing stress), the proprietary steel we use for this pistol was developed to be impossibly tough. Its safety system is also ultra-reliable, giving you automatic firing pin block as well as a flip-up ambidextous manual safety for extra peace of mind. All this is why a growing number of demanding government agencies and organizations are choosing it and using it in every environment imaginable--the PX4 just keeps delivering.

Snag-Free, Modular Design, Loaded with Features

The lines of the pistol are snag-free and make unholstering and reholstering easy and fluid, while the trigger guard is also rounded to facilitate the correct position of the supporting hand. In front of the trigger guard there is a Picatinny rail integral to the frame, allowing the easy mounting of laser devices, light systems or other types of accessories. The pistol may be adapted to different hand sizes and shooting styles thanks to a modular design with interchangeable backstraps. Also, the ambidextrous and reversible controls offer the possibility of easily training or shooting with either hand.

Reliable, Pleasant to Shoot and Easy to Maintain

This pistol features a cold-hammer forged, rotary barrel encased in an ultra-tough slide machined out of solid bar stock. Besides being one of the strongest actions available, the rotary barrel dissipates recoil away from the shooter’s hand and greatly reduces muzzle jump, making it an extremely fast, accurate and pleasant-shooting handgun. After a long day at the range, the disassembly device is designed to allow the pistol to be field stripped very quickly and easily and to avoid casual or involuntary disassembly. Re-assembly is even easier, with the slide locking automatically when it travels past the rear section of the frame.

Whether it is for official military and law-enforcement use, for home defense and concealed carry or as an accurate and high-quality pistol for recreational shooting, the PX4 Storm is one piece of gear that will never let you down. It is also available in stainless steel, compact and sub-compact versions--making this line even more versatile for a variety of uses.

No. 383     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 28, 2017 at 8:44 PM     
The PX4 Storm also comes in .40 and .45 calibers as well.

It is available in Compact and Subcompact versions.

California versions are also available with only 10 round Mags.

An interesting factoid is that if a law enforcement officer buys a PX4 Storm Beretta will pay death benefits if the officer dies in the line of duty!

Project Allegiance:

"Announced in late 2007, Project Allegiance has Beretta USA paying a $10,000 death benefit for any law enforcement officer who participates in the program. "Participate" means purchasing a Px4, and registering with the program. It is good for three years after the purchase. Beretta is also offering free counseling, legal, and financial advice to the survivors of the officer who is killed in the line of duty as part of the program"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Px4_Storm
No. 384     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 28, 2017 at 8:53 PM     
The following Military & Police units around the world officially use the PX4 Storm:

Albania

Albanian army and special forces
RENEA SWAT unit

Argentina: 1,500 pistols;Buenos Aires Metropolitan Police[7]
Armenia[8]

Armenian SWAT units
Armenian police units.

Canada: Canada Border Services Agency[9] Some are used in small numbers by private investigators in various provinces.
Chile: Use by the Special forces[10]
Colombia: Colombian Navy.
Italy: Nucleo Operativo Centrale di Sicurezza (NOCS)
Lebanon: Used by isf units
Libya: Ordered 7500 Px4 before the civil war[11]
Malaysia: Royal Malaysia Police [12]
Mexico: GOPES
Peru: Peruvian National Police;30000 pistols[13]
Portugal

National Republican Guard (Portugal)
Polícia de Segurança Pública[14]

South Africa: 40,000 pistols;South African Police Service[15]
South Korea: Presidential Security Service
Serbia: PTJ
Turkmenistan: Ordered 120 pistols[16]

United States:

Used by the Ohio County, WV Sheriff's Department,[17]
Maryland State Police,[18]
Sparta, New Jersey Police Department,[19]
Providence, Rhode Island Police Department,[20]
Fresno Police Department,[21]
and Rochester, NY police department.,[22]
Pharr, Texas Police Department.

Venezuela: Venezuelan National Guard.[23]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Px4_Storm
No. 385     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 29, 2017 at 7:21 PM     
There are 2 gun shops and a Military Surplus store all in the same general area I pass coming and going to work every day.

I'll have to stop there some time and give them some business.
No. 386     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 30, 2017 at 8:39 PM     
crayons wrote:

interesting, this Will be a DHS honey pot
very soon with posts like this...ya know it...



Since Oblama is no longer in power, and Trump is booting out muslims here and there as he is able to, DHS is no longer as much of a threat to the populace as it was.

Unless another gun grabbing democrat gets into office ugh.

It is being reworked and reorganized.

I have a stack of both FEMA & DHS certs incidentally. Have participated in a DHS/FEMA disaster anti-terrorist drill in fact. That was a whole day affair. The County Sheriff even brought in an APC lol.
No. 387     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 30, 2017 at 8:43 PM     
Oblama had banned the importation of cheap Russian ammo when he was in office.

Trump must have reversed or abolished that decision of Oblama's since I am seeing Tula ammo being once again sold everywhere again now.

For awhile when Oblama was still in office when he banned it I was seeing "Out OF Stock" on it everywhere.

Ammo of all kinds is once again packing the shelves which is good, that drives prices down when there is a surplus.
No. 388     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 30, 2017 at 8:52 PM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

I have a stack of both FEMA & DHS certs incidentally. Have participated in a DHS/FEMA disaster anti-terrorist drill in fact. That was a whole day affair. The County Sheriff even brought in an APC lol.


We did in fact receive a cert for this particular drill I remember but forgot what it was for, HAZMAT & WMD I believe.

Somewhere I have some photos I took of that APC.

I have seen a lot of Deuce & a Half's for sale through many of the Military Surplus auctions over the years.

Didn't you say you restore those or something Crayons?

Catalina Island I remember had one on it. Can't remember who owned it or what it's purpose was for. Possibly going up those steep Mountain roads in the boonies.
No. 389     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Jul 31, 2017 at 1:12 PM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

The following Military & Police units around the world officially use the PX4 Storm:

Albania

Albanian army and special forces
RENEA SWAT unit]


The lead instructor of my tactical firearms classes is a former Albanian special forces commander. He actually served as one of the developers that created the Albanian Special Forces, finally becoming Commander of the elite BOS division. He commanded the team for 7 years receiving both a Medal of Honor and the Golden Eagle Medal. The BOS is ranked the most elite unit of the Albanian Army, as well as being one of the best trained and most professional special operations units in the region.

If you were to google "Albanian bos" or "Albanian special forces", he is the only commander of note listed. He has 20+ years special forces training. In addition to serving on our staff as a hand to hand combat instructor and as the lead tactical firearms instructor, he also instructs counter terrorism and tactical assessment courses at the University of Michigan, and is a consultant to top diplomats, government officials, law and military groups around the world.

He and the secondary instructor of the firearms classes prefer, carry, and recommend Glock. In fact, all the instructors and the law enforcement and military students in class are carrying Glocks. This is not meant to knock Beretta. Glock is simply what they learned they could rely upon under fire with their lives on the line.

Although I desire a Glock, I still carry my Springfield XD or my S&W Bodyguard most often, depending on my dress. I have enough tactical courses now under my belt with the XD, it seems to have simply become a natural extension of my body, and may be difficult to make the transition comfortably to something else.

If I were to go purchase another handgun today, it would likely now be a FN 509 over the Glock I once desired.
No. 390     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 31, 2017 at 4:02 PM     
We had an employee from Albania who worked under me for a number of years at both the rr auto facility and the 5 story Corp office complex as well as at a site that the client has a bunch of Russians working at.

Interesting that the Albanian Army as well as the Albanian Special Forces as well as some of their SWAT units use the Beretta PX4. Maybe because it is NATO approved or something? They likely use a variety of firearms I'm sure, including Glocks.

I like Glocks too and still have some on the bucket list. There are simply some things and features about this Beretta I like. Plus a special offer popped up on this so I jumped on it while it was available.

The 92FS is one of my favorites too. A fellow guard has one.

And a former in house Guard who I worked with who was a former MP in the Army liked the 92FS also. He is now doing armed security at a nuclear plant I drove past all the time as a bouncer at a country & western bar.

The first company I worked at had 2 accounts at that same power company. One at their nuclear training facility and one at a non nuclear plant, both of which I worked at.
No. 391     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Jul 31, 2017 at 4:45 PM     
Personally, there is no one brand, make, or model of firearm I "prefer".

There are certain things or features I like about various makes and models.

For example, while Glock is one of the "ugliest" looking guns out there and many law enforcement officers refuse to use them due to their lack of a safety lever, (my stepfather is an opponent of Glocks due to no safety lever) it ranks high in reliability and ammo capacity (assuming one goes with their high capacity mags).

The PX4 ranks high in my book on ergonomics, reliability, and styling and isn't too snappy with it's up to 20 round capacity either.

I also like some FN, IWI, EAA, SAR, Springfield XD, Sig, H&K, S&W, and other makes and models depending on the firearm.

No one gun, "has it all" in all areas or features. It is a trade-off of what features you happen to like and or prefer in a particular make and model.
No. 392     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Aug 3, 2017 at 9:16 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Personally, there is no one brand, make, or model of firearm I "prefer".


LOL. Thus why I currently own like 12-15 firearms. Half are handguns.
No. 393     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 5, 2017 at 12:19 AM     
It appears Dick's Sporting Goods has reversed course, at least to a degree at som,e point.

Years ago I remember them announcing they were ceasing the selling of Firearms. And they did.

Now looking at their website and local sale fliers I see they are selling Shotguns, Rifles and Ammo.

Just no Handguns.

They do sell Handgun Ammo though.
No. 394     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 7, 2017 at 12:07 AM     
You can legally transport Handguns, Rifles, Shotguns & Ammo on Amtrak Trains but not Knives or Pepper Spray.
No. 395     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 7, 2017 at 12:17 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:

I have a brand new AR15 I have yet to shoot.


Have to drive a bit here to find an outdoor Rifle Range. There are a few, one halfway across the state.

And the official IL State Rifle Association rifle range. That is south of me, south of where I used to live in a small Town. It's out in the boonies near the Kankakee river.

They allow camping at that one too, with 24/7 keycard access to that, a big plus.

http://www.isra.org/Participate/YourMembership/JointheRange.aspx


Coincidentally, they recently mailed me some marketing info/application.

I had not requested any info from them, they must have heard me talking about them, lol.

No. 396     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 7, 2017 at 12:23 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Anything over 700fps OR anything over .177cal is considered a firearm and you have to have an IL FOID card in order to purchase or possess one:

https://www.gatguns.com/guns/air-guns-air-rifles


I did see an air rifle in the locked cabinet at Walmart that fires at 1,000 fps.

I wonder if they even know in IL it is considered a Firearm!
No. 397     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 7, 2017 at 12:43 AM     
Did you know there is a cheap, legal way to order and own a single shot handgun tht will fire .45LC or .410 Shogun Shells?

No license required, no FFL Dealers, they will legally ship it right to your Home! :icon_eek:

Step # 1. Order a 26.5mm Surplus Flare Pistol. There is no license required for these, as they are not considered Firearms, but Fire Marine Flares. This caliber is popular in Europe and many countries . Russian, Czech, Polish, German, and others are out there, the most common one being the Polish version. The best ones were made by H&K. They are found on the surplus market here in the USA for about $50-$100+ and will mail them right to your door.

(26.5mm Flares of various types are also readily available out there for it as well.

Step # 2. Order a, ".45LC/.410 Shotgun Shell Sub Caliber insert" for the above Flare Pistol. These cost about $60 and a few companies out there make and sell them. Again, these are completely legal and ship right to your door, no FFL Dealers or licenses needed.

They come with a a copy of an ATF letter of determination explaining they are completely legal as well.

Step: 3. Voilla! You now have a cheap single shot .45LC or .410 Shotgun Pistol!

Step # 4. Buy some .45LC or .410 Shotgun Shells. There are many specialized .410 shells available out there designed for self-defense. Some have "OOO" or "OO" Buckshot in them, others have rubber balls, salt, etc payloads.

You now have a legal single shot Firearm!

Many Boaters have and use this setup not only for firing flares in an emergency but for defending themselves using the insert and .410 ammo as well.

Enjoy this legal loophole while it exists!
No. 398     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 7, 2017 at 1:06 AM     
crayons wrote:

my biggest worry is keepin enough bluing n' bore cleaner around,
with this crazy weather have been cleaning/bluing barrels
lightly oiling movables before i bed down to cut down on the work, also keeping everything double wrapped, rust likes my favorites.




Menard's sells large tubs of desiccant powder cheap cheap.

I simply pour some into a small container and keep one in each ammo can.

And that huge ammo can I got awhile back is big enough to hold multiple handguns inside. Will likely store some of them in there along with that powder in a container., keeps all the rust off.

My Stepfather is the one who turned me on to this cheap trick.
No. 399     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 7, 2017 at 1:56 AM     
insular926 wrote:

Texas looks to be a good state for owning a GUN...
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/southwest/view/20110220texas_poised_to_pass_bill_allowing_guns_on_campus/srvc=news&position=recent_bullet


WI is an excellent pro firearms State also.

No license for buying or possessing Firearms.

Open carry is legal most anywhere in public, with certain exceptions like government facilities for example.

Also WI State law FORBIDS any city or County from passing more or firearms laws stricter than State law. WI State law over rules and ordinance passed by a city.

That's certainly not the case here in IL!

No. 400     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 7, 2017 at 2:03 AM     
Stormchaser wrote:

I think the sale price was $16.99 per box of 50 rds. 380. That's pretty good for here.


That's exactly how much the Remington .380 I got at Walmart was.

Other brands and models were higher, especially fancy 20 round packs designed solely for self defense.

If you catch it on sale at Cabela's or Dick's you can get it for about $11.

.380 is generally more than 9mm even though a smaller caliber.

Likely due to the fact that there is so much 9mm floating around out there, drives the prices down.
No. 401     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 18, 2017 at 1:41 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Did you know there is a cheap, legal way to order and own a single shot handgun tht will fire .45LC or .410 Shogun Shells?

No license required, no FFL Dealers, they will legally ship it right to your Home! :icon_eek:

Step # 1. Order a 26.5mm Surplus Flare Pistol. There is no license required for these, as they are not considered Firearms, but Fire Marine Flares. This caliber is popular in Europe and many countries . Russian, Czech, Polish, German, and others are out there, the most common one being the Polish version. The best ones were made by H&K. They are found on the surplus market here in the USA for about $50-$100+ and will mail them right to your door.

(26.5mm Flares of various types are also readily available out there for it as well.

Step # 2. Order a, ".45LC/.410 Shotgun Shell Sub Caliber insert" for the above Flare Pistol. These cost about $60 and a few companies out there make and sell them. Again, these are completely legal and ship right to your door, no FFL Dealers or licenses needed.

They come with a a copy of an ATF letter of determination explaining they are completely legal as well.

Step: 3. Voilla! You now have a cheap single shot .45LC or .410 Shotgun Pistol!

Step # 4. Buy some .45LC or .410 Shotgun Shells. There are many specialized .410 shells available out there designed for self-defense. Some have "OOO" or "OO" Buckshot in them, others have rubber balls, salt, etc payloads.

You now have a legal single shot Firearm!

Many Boaters have and use this setup not only for firing flares in an emergency but for defending themselves using the insert and .410 ammo as well.

Enjoy this legal loophole while it exists!


BudK had a special coupon of 25% off any order over $40.

http://www.budk.com/sub-caliber-devices-4389

So I picked up one of these sub caliber inserts and a few other things.

These subcaliber inserts are very popular among Boaters. Most jurisdictions and Countries allow for Marine Flare Pistols on board, but some do not allow Firearms. So what Boaters do is buy these subcaliber inserts and keep them loaded in their Flare Pistol along with the ammo and they use them for self-defense.

When entering a foreign country they simply remove the subcaliber insert and store it in another part of the ship along with the ammo.

NOTE: These may not be legal in all States or Cities, you'll have to check.

Also NEVER insert a 12 gauge shotgun shell into a 12 gauge subcaliber insert. The mere act of doing so is against Federal Law and is a Felony! It is considered a short barreled Shotgun at that point

They are designed for use with 12 gauge MARINE Flares!

And besides being illegal, firing a 12 gauge shotgun shell from a marine flare pistol would likely break or injure your wrist!
No. 402     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 18, 2017 at 2:26 AM     
Once you have your .410/.45LC subcaliber insert you will need some good ammo for it.

This company has quite a few specialty ammo types in .410. A few of these are not legal here in IL such as Dragon's Breath and Flechette rounds.

They have non-lethal ones too. Flashbangs, Pepper Rounds, Salt rounds (could be lethal), Rubber Buckshot and more.

http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/-410.html

A good source for .410 self-defense ammo is this company below which has a lot of "00" and "000" .410 Buckshot rounds specifically designed for self-defense:

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/410-gauge-buckshot

All of the above rounds work in the Taurus, "The Judge" .410/.45LC revolver as well.
No. 403     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 18, 2017 at 5:17 AM     
Just bought a Glock 17, Gen4. 9mm, 17 round, comes with 3 Magazines. Truglo front night sights. $540.

This one has been on the bucket list for years. Great terms were offered, so I jumped on it.

A SAR .45 I have had my eye on is now out of stock.
No. 404     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Aug 18, 2017 at 7:09 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Just bought a Glock 17, Gen4. 9mm, 17 round, comes with 3 Magazines. Truglo front sight. $540.



Now you have me "jealous". Good choice.

I expect some model of Glock to be amongst my next couple handgun acquisitions. And it will be 9mm.
No. 405     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 18, 2017 at 7:20 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Bullfighter279 wrote:

Just bought a Glock 17, Gen4. 9mm, 17 round, comes with 3 Magazines. Truglo front sight. $540.



Now you have me "jealous". Good choice.

I expect some model of Glock to be amongst my next couple handgun acquisitions. And it will be 9mm.


Buds 10% down, 180 day layaway plan is almost impossible to beat. The models they offer in that lot come and go and what they offer in that lot may not be there tomorrow so you have to jump on the offers while they offer them!
No. 406     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Aug 18, 2017 at 7:40 AM     
With my tactical firearms class peers, we make bulk buys of ammo as a group. We share the cost, thus share the savings.
No. 407     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 18, 2017 at 8:35 PM     
The Glock 17 was actually the first model ever developed by Glock. The one I just purchased is in it's 4th generation so has had a series of improvements over the years.

I found the history of Glock pretty interesting. Mr. Gastion Glock did not know a thing about firearms when first getting into the field! He was a Knife and Curtain Rod manufacturer!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_Glock

"Gaston Glock (born 19 July 1929) is an Austrian engineer, and founder of the firearms company Glock.

A book about Gaston Glock's life and his company, titled Glock: The Rise of America's Gun, was published in 2012.

Contents

1 Manufacturing
2 Personal life
3 Murder attempt
4 References

Manufacturing

Glock began as a manufacturer of curtain rods and knives for the Austrian military. He had not designed or manufactured a firearm until he was 52 years old. He was already an expert in polymers as a result of his previous business ventures.

In 1980 he bought an injection-moulding machine to manufacture handles and sheaths for the field knives he was making for the Austrian army in his garage workshop. His earliest employees were from the camera industry and were experts in producing polymer components. His first pistol took one year to produce from the design and concept stage to production, and he applied for an Austrian patent in April 1981 for the pistol known as the Glock 17.[1]
Personal life

Glock has three children with his former wife Helga Glock. In 2011, he divorced and married then 31-year-old Kathrin Tschikof, who was one of his nurses after his stroke in 2008.[2] He suffered a second stroke in 2012.[3]

Glock supports different charities in Austria, having donated over one million euros.[4][5][6]
Murder attempt

In July 1999, Charles Ewert, a business associate of Glock, hired a French mercenary to murder Glock with a mallet in a garage in Luxembourg in an apparent attempt to cover up embezzlement of millions from the Glock company.[2]

Although Glock's injuries included seven head wounds and the loss of about a litre of blood, Glock was able to fend off the attack by striking the hitman twice. The hired killer, 67-year-old Jacques Pêcheur, was sentenced to 17 years in prison for the attack. Charles Ewert was sentenced to 20 years as a result of Pêcheur's testimony.[7]"

No. 408     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 61   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 12:08 AM     
this is an unsecured/http site, jeeze; what's there
ta talk about.if y'all are undecided about this that or the other
or don't have yer shyyt together by now i can't really feel sorry fer ya.
No. 409     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 12:16 AM     
crayons wrote:

this is an unsecured/http site, jeeze; what's there
ta talk about.if y'all are undecided about this that or the other
or don't have yer shyyt together by now i can't really feel sorry fer ya.


Nothing to hide here. Everything I have and do is 100% legal and within the law.

Didn't you ever collect toys as a kid?
No. 410     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 6:57 AM     
Just ordered a lower, multi-caliber, only $6 down, 180 days to pay, $59.00 total, where can you find a deal like that?! Unbelievable! :salute:
No. 411     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 7:53 AM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Here she is:



Still working on building mine. Bought the lower years ago, a "Sharps Rifle" brand and managed to install the parts kit in it without losing any springs/pins, etc. so that's good to go.

Still have to order an upper for it sometime, Buttstock/Buffer tube, etc. I'm in no rush on completing this firearm.

One of my wholesalers sells all the accessories including optics and I have yet to put all that stuff up on one of my websites offering their whole line for sale.

Just ordered another lower, different brand. But will be using a different caliber system in that one. Both these are longer term projects.
No. 412     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 7:09 PM     
Was just watching a review on my Bersa Thunder 380.

Turns out many of the Engineers who hopped on board with Bersa in Argentina had originally worked at Beretta.
No. 413     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 61   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 9:31 PM     
wish you'd take all this
somewhere else Bullrider

maybe show everyone all yer skills n'
tell everyone all about it on the lock n' load site.
((laughin))
No. 414     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 9:56 PM     
crapola wrote:

wish you'd take all this
somewhere else Bullrider

maybe show everyone all yer skills n'
tell everyone all about it on the lock n' load site.
((laughin))


This thread is about Handguns.

If you don't like it quit reading and responding to it.
No. 415     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 61   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 10:20 PM     
Christians, Veterans and Law Enforcement
keep this type of thing to themselves;

and you're going way beyond the title
of the thread. or to be honest;
you're actually playin
into someone elses hand.

i'd cool it for now.
No. 416     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 11:02 PM     
crayons wrote:

Christians, Veterans and Law Enforcement
keep this type of thing to themselves;

and you're going way beyond the title
of the thread. or to be honest;
you're actually playin
into someone elses hand.

i'd cool it for now.


Oh please this is the USA, firearms are legal here, this is not communist china, England, Australia, or Canada.

And I have to disagree with you there, Christians, Veterans, and law enforcement very well do talk about this stuff. You must not have visited very many firearms forums...

Target shooting is a sport.

Stop attempting to demonize it like the left does, you're beginning to sound just like them.
No. 417     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 61   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 11:49 PM     
dont give a dang what i sound like;
your playin into the enemy's hand.

they don't deserve any info. take it
to a pro secured https site where you
have to sign in if anyone want to discuss
this...nothing is for free///its called
checks and balances.
No. 418     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 19, 2017 at 11:56 PM     
crayons wrote:

dont give a dang what i sound like;
your playin into the enemy's hand.

they don't deserve any info. take it
to a pro secured https site where you
have to sign in if anyone want to discuss
this...nothing is for free///its called
checks and balances.


As if those sites are never monitored by anyone, lol. :rolleyes:
No. 419     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 20, 2017 at 12:23 AM     
Anyway, continuing on with the title of the thread..."Handguns".

Just found out today one of the best gun shops in the Chicago area is only 3.5 miles away from here. I thought it was further than that.

Jesse Jackson and the BLM crowd has protested outside this one before years ago I have heard in the news.

That's tough, deal with it twinkie...

Their range fee is only #20 vs the one near home which is an outrageous $35!

They also have an indoor Rifle Range as well with 50 yard range for #20 per hour or 75 yard range for $29 per hour.

They have a huge array of different handguns to rent from. Even a Desert Eagle .50AE.

As well as many types of rifles for rent in such calibers as .308, AK47's, AR15's, etc.

Special deals on combo Pistol and Rifle range use together.

They have lots of Tactical training classes of various types there as well.

And FREE use of the Range on your B
No. 420     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Aug 20, 2017 at 6:09 AM     
Curtis wrote:

What ever happened to the 357 magnum?? It use to be standard police issue...Years ago. Before bad guys started carrying bigger guns.


Curt,


It was my first handgun, a Colt King Cobra.

I once read an FBI report that said "More people have been killed by the .357 Magnum round than any other.".

Don't know if that's still true these days or not though with other calibers being more prevalent.
No. 421     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Nov 6, 2017 at 9:14 PM     
After I finished at the gym today, I stopped at one of the largest firearms dealers in this area. They were out of a lot of models and said it has been hard to get inventory since the Vegas incident, and that in just the past two days they sold a lot of guns. I went armed with a list of sale priced guns from their ad from just yesterday, and they had already sold out of most all the Sun/Mon sale priced firearms. Same with their other store across town.

About the only thing they seemed to have a lot of in stock was Hi-Point. Many are starting to shy away from that brand. Even though they sell them at that store, the salesman behind the counter stated he would not recommend one for my purposes. In fact, I overhead him tell the 3 customers ahead of me the same. Stated they are OK for low cost protection to have a firearm around, were as odds are you may never fire it enough to empty a mag. But said for repeated firing as you would do at a range, they are not holding up to the satisfaction of most customers.

Anyway, I left with two brand new Smith & Wesson SDVEs. One 9 and one 40. Both with stainless steel slides. Still have my heart set on a Glock, but that one Glock I am after cost well more than I paid for both these.

These were to simply add to the arsenal I may take to an all day tactical class as back-ups for myself or loans to friends and peers that often arise at such classes, and/or to simply have alternatives on hand for whatever bulk ammo they provide us for the day. Also allows me to now keep at least one preferred caliber and higher quality firearm in the firearms safe in the trunk of all 3 cars.

Actually, I purchased the 9mm earlier in the day. Got familiar with it for a couple hours. Come to like it so well I went back this evening and purchased the same thing in a 40. They are reasonably priced quality American made firearms, to were as owning two can be done without breaking the bank. I will likely now sell both the Taurus models I have, and maybe one of the Walthers.

Still plan to pick up that Glock some day. Looked at Glocks today also, but the one I desire even on sale was considerably more than I paid for two S&Ws. I also have interest in a Kimber, but the model I desire they sold their last one just ahead of me coming in the door.
No. 422     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Nov 7, 2017 at 12:05 AM     
Picked up a bunch of stuff at WallyWorld tonight.

While there I went to get a box of .410 "000" shells but they were out of it, grrhh. They had it last time I was there.

So I grabbed a box of 5 .410 hollow point Rifled slugs instead.

They did have some .45LC but it was too pricey.

I noticed they had a, "Rollback" sale sign on 500 round boxes of .22LR Remington Thunderbolt ammo for only $21.72 so I grabbed a box of that which was a pretty good price.

Boxes of .22LR ammo can be good trading commodities during a SHTF scenario.

They say there are more .22LR Rifles in this country than any other caliber.
No. 423     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Nov 7, 2017 at 8:22 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:They say there are more .22LR Rifles in this country than any other caliber.


I have beautiful Walther .22 handgun. She appears to be a much larger caliber medium frame handgun. In fact, looks and feels just like my Walther PK 380. Until you pull the trigger.
No. 424     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Nov 15, 2017 at 3:05 PM     
Last evening I attended a United States Concealed Carry Association hosted handgun/self-defense class. Although I have done some of their publications and video training prior, I think this was the first USCCA live class I have attended.

Tim Schmidt himself led the class. He is the founder of USCCA. Actually, I am also acquainted with Tim's brother of whom in the past I have been involved in some of his general self-defense and survival preparedness programs, as well as Tim's Dad whom offers specific financial/investment advisory services to "prepper" minded individuals.

I have to say this class was much more informative than any NRA course I have been involved other than my concealed carry class, which for the most part followed NRA guidelines. But to be fair, the NRA courses I have done thus far have pretty much concentrated on firearms use and skills. Were as this USCCA course covered some handling of a firearm/weapon, it was mostly geared towards when to or not to pull your weapon and what to expect if involved in a shooting.

There was a previous prosecuting attorney there whom is now a practicing lawyer, and a law enforcement officer of which both spoke and provided a lot of interesting information from the perspective of the law.

And there was a USCCA instructor on hand, in addition to Tim Schmidt, of which both provided answers to a lot of questions from the perspective of the armed citizen.

It was a very worthwhile class. Apparently they host one each month on a different self-defense related topic. I hope to do more.
No. 425     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Nov 22, 2017 at 11:14 PM     
Did a little more research on that new indoor Gun Range that opened up recently near me.

They are MUCH cheaper than the $35 the snobby range a few miles away charges!

Senior Citizens (55 and older, YEA!!!) shoot for only $9 for half an hour.

But it is only $9 per half hour during a few hours during every day of the week M-F during lunch anyway.

They also allow rifles, and even shotguns, but using Slugs only, no buckshot.

I don't see any restrictions on steel cased Russian ammo

And they let you pick up and save your own brass if it falls behind the firing line.

And they don't require you to buy any of their ammo either (unless you rent one of their firearms).

FFL transfers are only $25.

And they are not far from me. I will be giving them most all my business.

I predict the snobby gun shop a few miles from me will soon go out of business!:yeahthat:
No. 426     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Nov 23, 2017 at 4:15 PM     
The Guard who relieved me is from Poland. He used to drive Tanks (Russian built) when in the Army over there.

He informed me he has IL's, "Shotgun" and "Rifle" endorsements for his Security Firearms training.

I was not even aware IL had such and option. Thought it was just for Revolver and Semi-Auto Pistols. This is something relatively new.

I looked it up, and sure enough IL does offer them as an, "Add on" to our State Firearms security license.

The actual likelihood of having a need for either of those in the security business is pretty rare though.

I have seen Armored Car Guards bearing Shotguns in an aggressive and, "ready" manner while transferring large sums of cash to and from their vehicle to a Bank or Business.

The need for a rifle in security is pretty slim though.

Times are changing though with all these mass shootings, crazy people, etc.
No. 427     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Nov 23, 2017 at 8:46 PM     
I am typically not one that bothers with Black Friday sales etc.. I may shop during those periods, but rarely after any specific "buy".

But tomorrow, my local indoor/outdoor firearms range which is ranked best in Michigan, has the annual premium unlimited membership at 50% off. I may jump for that.

BTW - This AM I went out for breakfast. Before I returned home to get ready for T Day Dinner at Mom's, I stopped at a Meijer. I purchased 3 different size infra-red electric heaters for less total than what I think I paid for one of the same brand a while back. So guess this season I already broke my trend of not bothering with such sales. But it is not what I really set out the door to do.
No. 428     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Nov 23, 2017 at 10:55 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

I am typically not one that bothers with Black Friday sales etc.. I may shop during those periods, but rarely after any specific "buy".

But tomorrow, my local indoor/outdoor firearms range which is ranked best in Michigan, has the annual premium unlimited membership at 50% off. I may jump for that.

BTW - This AM I went out for breakfast. Before I returned home to get ready for T Day Dinner at Mom's, I stopped at a Meijer. I purchased 3 different size infra-red electric heaters for less total than what I think I paid for one of the same brand a while back. So guess this season I already broke my trend of not bothering with such sales. But it is not what I really set out the door to do.


The Polish Guard I just relieved said Cabela's is opening at 5am for Black Friday sales and he is going to be there to purchase a gun and or accessories. He's then heading to a different local gun shop as well.

I don't do the black Friday mad rush stuff, to me all the traffic has never simply been worth it just to save a few dollars. And these days some people turn animalistic wanting to fight over some radio or tv.
No. 429     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Nov 25, 2017 at 7:09 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:
But tomorrow, my local indoor/outdoor firearms range which is ranked best in Michigan, has the annual premium unlimited membership at 50% off. I may jump for that.


I did do this.

For me, it is well worth it. The regular rate for the indoor range for handgun is $14/half hour and $18/hour. For rifle $18/half hour and $24/hour. The outdoor ranges are $8/day regardless of type of firearm.

I purchased the all access premium membership which allows me free access to both the indoor and outdoor handgun/rifle ranges, 1 guest for free, periods of 2 hours consecutive indoor shooting M-TH were as others can book only up to 1 hour. I am actually allowed more than the 2 hours, but if customers are waiting for a lane I am limited to 2 hours and then have to wait my turn in the que if desiring to shoot more. I have all day free access to the outdoor ranges as well as my guest does also. I can rent any of their handguns for $15 or any rifle for $20 for whatever range time I have booked.

The above membership normally runs $49.95/month or $599.40 over the course of a year. But I took advantage of a Black Friday special paying $237.50 total up front for 1 year of access.

In reality, if you come prepared and ready to efficiently use your range time, a lot of shooting can happen in 1 hour. Even in 30 minutes if simply just maintaining skills. If attending any type of class, such typically involves more time. And they do offer a variety of classes. I joined just in time to catch a defensive firearms seminar being presented in December.
No. 430     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 61   on  Nov 25, 2017 at 8:12 PM     
if you're going to practice...
it's not good to give info/tricks away
online anymore nowadays...ya may have
a bunch of jihadis show up to learn
the same thing, I know i'm not givin my training/
tricks away. ya know it?
No. 431     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Nov 26, 2017 at 6:41 PM     
Black Friday 2017 Shatters Single-Day Record for Gun Purchase Background Checks

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/26/black-friday-2017-shatters-previous-record-gun-purchase-background-checks/
No. 432     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Nov 26, 2017 at 9:21 PM     
I purchased a new range bag that easily holds 4 handguns, 1000 rounds of ammo, cleaning kit, ear and hearing protection, and room to spare.

In fact, the deal included a cleaning kit, electronic hearing protection muffs, and high-impact ballistic safety glasses. Of which I already have all that. My new range membership allows me a guest on the firing line with me for free. Guess I now have an extra set for them to use.

As far as cleaning kits, that is like the 3rd free kit I have received for some reason or another in the past 2-3 weeks. May start throwing some on eBay. LOL.

I already have plenty of firearms cleaning supplies. Actually, I was never able to find a kit that included all my favorites in one kit. Thus have assembled my own custom cleaning kit with my favorite pieces taken from miscellaneous kits as well as individual item/tool purchases.
No. 433     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Nov 26, 2017 at 9:27 PM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Black Friday 2017 Shatters Single-Day Record for Gun Purchase Background Checks

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/26/black-friday-2017-shatters-previous-record-gun-purchase-background-checks/


The place I purchased my range membership at is also Michigan's largest firearms dealer, as well as a worldwide known US manufacturer of custom firearms optics. The young lady that assisted me stated they have been extremely busy all weekend.
No. 434     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Nov 28, 2017 at 6:37 PM     
It appears the communists are out for blood.

But isn't that what they are ultimately after all along?

Yes, it is.
No. 435     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 61   on  Nov 28, 2017 at 7:25 PM     
ye~ah like i said before, you give out way too much info.
i'm sure the sheriff would love the fact that you're
giving out his private secrets online..."fool"

No. 436     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Nov 28, 2017 at 7:50 PM     
Yep next week we go to break a few tools in at the new range, no matter how much communists may whine and cry. They will get all my local business, as far as shooting goes.

Don't know about their firearms or ammo prices yet, although the retired deputy/police officer says they have a huge selection of firearms there.

He said he gave them over 200 old, "bad guy targets" that he had laying around.

No. 437     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Nov 28, 2017 at 10:08 PM     
And just to make sure we anger the communist :crybaby: here some more...next week i'll be legally buying some more 9mm ammo for when I go legally shooting at the legal range with my legally purchased firearms.

Of course the communist here doesn't like all that but well...that's just tuff, this is the USA! :salute:
No. 438     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 61   on  Nov 28, 2017 at 11:54 PM     
unfortunately post 434 Proves what an XXXXXX you are.
No. 439     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Nov 29, 2017 at 11:14 AM     
As usual, the communists rage on with more of their nonsensical garbage.

They just can't seem to help themselves can they! :exactly:
No. 440     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Nov 29, 2017 at 11:47 AM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

As usual, the communists rage on with more of their nonsensical garbage.

They just can't seem to help themselves can they! :exactly:


Crayons does have a point though about what you shared in post 434.

I personally know individuals that found themselves in legal "hot water" just avoiding not being charged with a felony for doing such as you shared in that post in a system under someone else's ID/login, even though the ID owner was sitting there directing them in what to do.

I know people that got in legal trouble finding themselves on "probation" for doing such with things a lot less important than firearms.

Such situations may be looked at differently based on individual state laws.
No. 441     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 55   on  Nov 29, 2017 at 12:55 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

Bullfighter279 wrote:

As usual, the communists rage on with more of their nonsensical garbage.

They just can't seem to help themselves can they! :exactly:


Crayons does have a point though about what you shared in post 434.

I personally know individuals that found themselves in legal "hot water" just avoiding not being charged with a felony for doing such as you shared in that post in a system under someone else's ID/login, even though the ID owner was sitting there directing them in what to do.

I know people that got in legal trouble finding themselves on "probation" for doing such with things a lot less important than firearms.

Such situations may be looked at differently based on individual state laws.


I haven't committed any felony. And I never entered his user id OR password.
No. 442     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Nov 29, 2017 at 1:34 PM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

Survivor698 wrote:

Bullfighter279 wrote:

As usual, the communists rage on with more of their nonsensical garbage.

They just can't seem to help themselves can they! :exactly:


Crayons does have a point though about what you shared in post 434.

I personally know individuals that found themselves in legal "hot water" just avoiding not being charged with a felony for doing such as you shared in that post in a system under someone else's ID/login, even though the ID owner was sitting there directing them in what to do.

I know people that got in legal trouble finding themselves on "probation" for doing such with things a lot less important than firearms.

Such situations may be looked at differently based on individual state laws.


I haven't committed any felony. And I never entered his user id OR password.


An individual I personally know that most recently found themselves in legal trouble for such also did not enter the user ID or password. But they did admit to entering information into a database they are not legally authorized to access nor able to provide sufficient evidence they were a legal designated representative of the authorized user, thus found themselves accused of having committed a crime.

It happened about the same as you described. An elderly individual with some physical limitations owned the legal access, but had a practice of allowing others to enter data on his behalf. Turns out there was some information that was either entered incorrectly or required further clarification. The elderly individual with the legal access was contacted to confirm the information. When he could not exactly do so for whatever reasons, he shared that he did not directly enter the information himself. Which led to contacting the individual that did. Despite her testimony the elderly gentleman asked her to enter the data/transaction herself and him collaborating such, it did not matter. She found herself on probation, lucky to not have received more severe legal ramifications.
No. 443     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Nov 29, 2017 at 1:37 PM     
Do not take me wrong. Not accusing or really even criticizing of anything.

I have found myself in similar situations doing similar without really giving thought to the potential ramifications if something had went awry, as it did for my friend.
No. 444     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 61   on  Nov 29, 2017 at 3:53 PM     
not only what you said surveyor, but
don't think the poor sheriff needs
this either, or worse.
i'm not seeing it; so it is removed; correct?
No. 445     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 85   on  Nov 29, 2017 at 4:24 PM     
So what ya'll are saying is I shouldn't be listening to former Sheriff Deputies of 15 years or former Municipal Police Officers of another 15 years?

Ok got it!
No. 446     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 61   on  Nov 29, 2017 at 4:39 PM     
no, there are some things in this world
you need to keep to yerself, that kind
of info could get you & your sheriff friend in trouble
or even killed if some jihadi type figured out
who/where your friend is.

it's more like loose lips sink ships.
No. 447     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Nov 29, 2017 at 4:52 PM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:

So what ya'll are saying is I shouldn't be listening to former Sheriff Deputies of 15 years or former Municipal Police Officers of another 15 years?

Ok got it!


Not even close to what was stated or implied. You have completely missed the point.
No. 448     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Dec 8, 2017 at 4:40 PM     
I have been attempting to locate and buy a new Beretta 3032 Tomcat INOX Stainless 32ACP. Not interested in a used one. Here in Michigan I have not been able to locate one, and apparently they are so popular no dealer I have spoken with will promise they can get me one.

Thought I located a couple of them online with a Georgia dealer and another with an Oklahoma dealer, but both did not really have them. Their website listings are outdated.

I have found them a very easy to use handgun with a break barrel, thus not requiring any hand manipulation of a slide to load and/or chamber a round. I am encountering a lot of females that would like to go to the range and shoot, but simply do not have the "ability" to properly use a slide on most semi-auto handguns nor appear capable of easily loading and using a revolver. Seem to be intimidated by a revolver.

The Beretta 3032 removes those obstacles. Simply open the barrel to load first round, pop in the mag and ready to go. It is also an excellent alternative for those with hand limitations such as chronic arthritis.
No. 449     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Dec 8, 2017 at 9:26 PM     
Survivor698 wrote:

I have been attempting to locate and buy a new Beretta 3032 Tomcat INOX Stainless 32ACP. Not interested in a used one. Here in Michigan I have not been able to locate one, and apparently they are so popular no dealer I have spoken with will promise they can get me one.

Thought I located a couple of them online with a Georgia dealer and another with an Oklahoma dealer, but both did not really have them. Their website listings are outdated.

I have found them a very easy to use handgun with a break barrel, thus not requiring any hand manipulation of a slide to load and/or chamber a round. I am encountering a lot of females that would like to go to the range and shoot, but simply do not have the "ability" to properly use a slide on most semi-auto handguns nor appear capable of easily loading and using a revolver. Seem to be intimidated by a revolver.

The Beretta 3032 removes those obstacles. Simply open the barrel to load first round, pop in the mag and ready to go. It is also an excellent alternative for those with hand limitations such as chronic arthritis.


I poked around a bit online looking for one.

One source said it will be back in stock in 4-6 months.
No. 450     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  crayons   Gender: M   Age: 61   on  Dec 8, 2017 at 9:38 PM     
unless you stick that 32 in my ear
and pull the trigger, it's just gonna
piss me off.
No. 451     Reply: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Dec 8, 2017 at 10:01 PM     
crayons wrote:

unless you stick that 32 in my ear
and pull the trigger, it's just gonna
piss me off.


It is only going to be intended for recreation at the range for my guests that need something somewhat easier to use.

But may make for a very easy to conceal backup.

I understand what you are saying though. I have an acquaintance that was shot by a disgruntled employee like 17 times with a 22 pistol when he kept trying to run and take cover. He finally just laid down and played dead. Personally not sure I would have done that, for the perp may have then just walked up and put one in the ear. But in this case the perp simply ran away when his victim stayed down.
No. 452     Reply: Re: Re: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Dec 8, 2017 at 10:13 PM     
Bullfighter279 wrote:I poked around a bit online looking for one.

One source said it will be back in stock in 4-6 months.


Thank you.

I called many stores within 100 miles of me. None on hand. Then poked on the Internet for a while with no success on a new one. Found a couple places "indicating" they had them, but when I proceeded to enter the order it popped up out of stock or not available.

May settle on a local used one for about $250. Encountered many used ones online, but I just do not want to mess with one I cannot physically see and hold first.

I did try a little Sig Sauer .380 I found locally with the easiest slide I have ever used. Might consider that for now. In fact, I think I am going to run back over there and take a look at it again tomorrow.

Since I got that range membership, lots of gals wanting to go shoot. But they grumble that even my little S&W .380 Bodyguard is tough for them to chamber.
No. 453     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Survivor698   Gender: M   Age: 104   on  Jan 12, 2018 at 8:25 PM     
I have had an interesting opportunity come on the scene since this past Christmas Eve.

Christmas Eve I attended a communion service at my church. This was different than your typical entire congregation service. Small groups randomly met at separate tables with a designated leader, the group introduced themselves, interacted a few minutes, shared any specific "issues" we would like prayer for, prayed for each other, and then participated together in communion. A short closing service was held with the entire congregation and we went our separate ways.

Anyway, since the first of the year I encountered the young man that was our group's designated table leader at the gym. He is an associate Pastor at a local church. At the communion was the first time I had ever formally met him, and I had never seen him at the gym before. Although I had encountered him in various church circles.

He approached me at the gym. Some considerable conversation followed. He noticed my Krav Maga T-shirt and then asked considerable questions about my hand to hand self-defense training leading up to details on my specific firearms training. He then shared he has been charged with researching and looking into pulling a local program together to provide plain clothes armed security detail for church services and events, and asked if I had any such interest in being involved. I "reservedly" expressed I did, without outright committing until I had more information.

We have talked some more since, again today actually, with some larger "planning" meeting on the agenda. I am being presented the opportunity to simply provide consulting to being as involved as my interests and time allow. I can simply advise, instruct hand to hand self-defense as well as firearms training, to being one of the leaders of the entity. If I opt to become more involved than as a consultant, I and a couple others will be sent to some certification and licensing "bootcamp" provided by law enforcement. Not a lot of solid details at the moment.

Kind of "funny" in a way. For the past couple of years family and friends have somewhat prodded, teased, and asked why all the regular martial arts/hand to hand combat training, defending against active shooter classes, firearms training, etc., I participate in. I would "jokingly" reply something like "I feel as if God is preparing me to protect His people in some manner." Even though I may have laughed and/or smiled when providing such an answer, inside I seriously felt and do feel such a calling.
No. 454     Reply: Re: Handguns   
By:  Bullfighter279   Gender: M   Age: 103   on  Jan 12, 2018 at 11:28 PM     
I was once asked to provide a few weeks training on, "Railroad Security" for a Criminal Justice Bachelor's program at ITT one of our guards was taking.

I declined for 2 reasons, one is I am not really a public speaker or good in front of large groups. I do better with small groups, just a few people at a time.

And two I don't know how the 2 Railroads I worked for would have taken that. Much of what we were taught, know, and did is considered very confidential.

I could have just not mentioned either of the RR's by name I suppose.